VAT
Hi there - have recently enable VAT tracking but seeing some inconsistencies. I have a transaction that is £26.97. When I enter this, the total gets changed to £20.96 (£22.47 for the item and £4.49 for VAT). I have deleted the transaction and tried to re-enter but it always enters £22.96 NOT £22.97. I guess we have rounding errors but how can I ensure that the entry is the correct amount. For info, this is the 2nd transaction that has done this. Any ideas on what I should do or am doing wrong??
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1 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 12 Oct, 2024 07:00 AM
I suspect this is a rounding issue (with 22.475). I’ll dig into the maths.
2 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 12 Oct, 2024 02:04 PM
Just to clarify your question (a few typos above):
- Actual transaction for: £26.97
- When entered, total changes to: £26.96 (£22.47 for the item and £4.49 for VAT).
The question is what's right....
Are you sure that your total of £26.97 is correct? Is the breakdown printed on the invoice? Here are my calculations:
net vat vat gross
£22.47 £4.494 £4.49 £26.96
£22.48 £4.496 £4.50 £26.98
I can't actually get back to a total of £26.97? (I accept my maths might be wrong... if so, please update my calculations)
We can force the MD calculation to get back to the total but we actually need to know what calculation is correct?
NOTE: The MD calculation of 22.47 + 4.49 = 26.96 is not incorrect as such....
3 Posted by mark.jeffery875... on 12 Oct, 2024 03:09 PM
Hi Stuart,
Thanks for looking into this one for me. Yes, you are right, I did make some typo’s and you have described the question correctly below.
I’m afraid I do not have a receipt. Not many places give one nowadays unless you ask!!! However, I have checked my banking app to ensure we are talking the correct transaction total, which is the £26.97.
Tried that entry again and it still adjusts the transaction total to a different value, £26.96
For now, I have unchecked the Apply VAT checkbox and entered the 2 transactions manually as a split transaction. The transaction total being the primary number for me. I don’t know if there are rounding rules with VAT - never looked at it this closely.
Best Regards
Mark
4 Posted by mark.jeffery875... on 12 Oct, 2024 03:09 PM
Hi Stuart,
Thanks for looking into this one for me. Yes, you are right, I did make some typo’s and you have described the question correctly below.
I’m afraid I do not have a receipt. Not many places give one nowadays unless you ask!!! However, I have checked my banking app to ensure we are talking the correct transaction total, which is the £26.97.
Tried that entry again and it still adjusts the transaction total to a different value, £26.96
For now, I have unchecked the Apply VAT checkbox and entered the 2 transactions manually as a split transaction. The transaction total being the primary number for me. I don’t know if there are rounding rules with VAT - never looked at it this closely.
Best Regards
Mark
5 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 12 Oct, 2024 03:30 PM
Anyone else here who knows how to reverse the vat calcuation on this amount?
6 Posted by mark.jeffery875... on 12 Oct, 2024 03:41 PM
Hi Stewart,
I have just had the same issue come up again and I do have the invoice.
I have entered a transaction of £3.99 but when enter is pushed, it creates the split and enters a total transaction amount of £3.98
The invoice shows Item = £3.33 VAT = £0.66 and a Total = £3.99
The transaction in Moneydance enters the following Item = £3.32 VAT = £0.66 and a Total = £3.98
My priority is to have the total correct then the breakdown (Splits) so am concerned that Moneydance changes the top line transaction value.
I would have thought the the overall transaction value would be the number that would remain unchanged.
I wonder what Moneydance would have to say about this?? Unless anyone else has a comment to make.
Best Regards
Mark
7 Posted by mark.jeffery875... on 12 Oct, 2024 03:41 PM
Hi Stewart,
I have just had the same issue come up again and I do have the invoice.
I have entered a transaction of £3.99 but when enter is pushed, it creates the split and enters a total transaction amount of £3.98
The invoice shows Item = £3.33 VAT = £0.66 and a Total = £3.99
The transaction in Moneydance enters the following Item = £3.32 VAT = £0.66 and a Total = £3.98
My priority is to have the total correct then the breakdown (Splits) so am concerned that Moneydance changes the top line transaction value.
I would have thought the the overall transaction value would be the number that would remain unchanged.
I wonder what Moneydance would have to say about this?? Unless anyone else has a comment to make.
Best Regards
Mark
8 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 12 Oct, 2024 04:32 PM
But.... that calculation is wrong...!
£3.33 * 0.20 = £0.666; which according to HRMC rules rounds up to £0.67
Thus £3.33 + £0.67 = £4.00
I agree about making the total unchanged, but can you see that your VAT invoice is wrong.. Hence it's impossible to backwards calculate to your receipt?
9 Posted by mark.jeffery875... on 12 Oct, 2024 04:41 PM
Again - Thank You for your interest in resolving this Stuart. Really appreciated.
Yes, I see your calculation and also agree about the rounding of the VAT number. Just read the rounding rules on the UK Gov site and they describe it just as you have stated and calculated below.
As I have said, my real concern is that Moneydance changes the overall transaction total to suit their internal calculation. Small variations in rounding errors of VAT is not such an issue. The overall transaction total really is and it's that which Moneydance changes.
Mark
10 Posted by mark.jeffery875... on 12 Oct, 2024 04:41 PM
Again - Thank You for your interest in resolving this Stuart. Really appreciated.
Yes, I see your calculation and also agree about the rounding of the VAT number. Just read the rounding rules on the UK Gov site and they describe it just as you have stated and calculated below.
As I have said, my real concern is that Moneydance changes the overall transaction total to suit their internal calculation. Small variations in rounding errors of VAT is not such an issue. The overall transaction total really is and it's that which Moneydance changes.
Mark
11 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 12 Oct, 2024 04:42 PM
OK, so I agree the total should not change... But then the splits between net and vat would be wrong as there's no way to calculate it?
12 Posted by Dan P on 12 Oct, 2024 09:58 PM
Not sure this helps but you might take a look.
https://www.thevatcalculator.co.uk/
13 Posted by dtd on 12 Oct, 2024 10:37 PM
.
14 Posted by dtd on 12 Oct, 2024 10:38 PM
It looks like the calculator link can't resolve this properly either.
The two calculations do NOT add up to 3.99. I guess the calculator can get away with it, but Moneydance has to make a decision - either way they decide (3.99 splits to 3.33 0.67, or 4.00 splits to that, but that isn't the total...) does not match the invoice.
as Stuart points out in message 6.
15 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 13 Oct, 2024 07:37 AM
We can easily make the total match but then we have to make a decision to adjust the net or vat (wrongly)
16 Posted by dwg on 13 Oct, 2024 08:23 AM
I would think you keep the correct total, the correct vat and adjust the net.
17 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 13 Oct, 2024 06:46 PM
Aghhhh. Just found a bug. If you duplicate a txn with vat in it, then the vat splits double. Do you see this too?
18 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 14 Oct, 2024 01:26 PM
I have proposed fix solutions for both these issues to IK... Let's see if they are accepted..
19 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 14 Oct, 2024 05:34 PM
Fixes will appear in 5168 alpha.
20 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 28 Oct, 2024 04:13 AM
Resolved. Grab 2024.2(5172)
Support Staff 21 Posted by Maddy on 28 Oct, 2024 03:13 PM
@Mark
Moneydance 2024.2 (5172) is available to download from this page.
We recommend overwriting or manually removing the older version.
--
Maddy, Infinite Kind Support
System closed this discussion on 27 Jan, 2025 03:20 PM.