does not calculate the fee in transactions
hello
in investment/register i input the purchase of stocks, it calculate properly the amount of the stock value x nr of stocks, but when i add the fees (underneath the amount) it will not change the value in the cash balance column on the right
see attached screenshot, a balance of 26,5 remain even though the amount should be 0
any solution?
Screen_Shot_2017-01-10_at_11.15.13.png
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1 Posted by Tom Freeman on 19 Jan, 2017 03:57 AM
If you buy 100 shares of x for $5 and there is a $9.95 fee then the total transaction should be 509.95. This would be the amount put into the transaction total not $500.
The share price is $5 but the cost basis would be $5.10 (rounded up). When calculating the share price, MD deducts the fee from the transaction total.
From the screen shot, I am assuming that the total transaction cost would have been 524.95 and 648.45
This would have put nike at 51.17 which is between the trading hi/low on 12/28
Tom Freeman
Infinite Kind Support
2 Posted by Gabriele eu on 19 Jan, 2017 11:40 AM
thank you, tom,
maybe I did not express myself clearly
see the 2 attached before fee and after fee
1- before fee: my cash balance is 104,22
2- after fee: if I add the 104,22 to the balance fee, the cash balance is still 104,22, which makes me think that fee field is not calculated in the cash balance
is it correct?
if so, then the only way to me to input the operation would be to manually calculate the price as it follows (to be able to include share cost + fee in the Amount field):
shares time price = XXX + fees = XXX / shares = input price
say that I want to input 104,22 all to the last transaction (to make it simple) I should then do:
20*52,38 = 1047,6 + 104,22 = 1151,82 / 20 = 57,591 (this would be my input price instead of the price that I actually bought the shares)
indeed 57,591 * 20 = 1151,82 (total amount shares cost + fee)
am I correct? if this is the way to properly do it I will do, but it is conceptually wrong from an admin point of view
thank you for your patience
3 Posted by dwg on 19 Jan, 2017 08:08 PM
Interesting, I tried entering a transaction in a number of different ways in build 1592.
Depending on how I did it I got some very very wrong transactions, with Moneydance making some rather strange arbitary changes
It appears one reliable way to get the transaction right is to enter:
Share price is then calculated correctly. I would expect that this data you should have in any case
If I enter
I get rubbish and it changes price per share, does not calculate a number of shares.
If I enter
It changes the number of shares rather than calculate a fee (even if I enter a fee category).
The algorithm behind this is doing some odd things.
4 Posted by dwg on 19 Jan, 2017 08:45 PM
I've just had some thoughts on why Moneydance does some what may be considered odd things in this, perhaps some of them are not so odd.
You may not necessarily be charged any fees for the transaction, it depends on the nature of the transaction so to conclude that a fee must be calculate could be quite wrong.
Moneydance does allow you to just enter an amount it works to increase or decrease the cost basis, it sort works as a poor mans return of capital or capital call, but has problems in that it only works with average cost, so it is not all that useful most of the time.
It seems to me that moneydance is only using a simple algorithm here rather than trying to eliminate the possibilities and requires some definite input data and will not calculate just any field based on arbitary entry.
5 Posted by rcooper85 on 20 Jan, 2017 02:57 AM
I also think it would be nice to be able to keep track of the fees that a broker charges, as a separate investment expense category. You may want to try and use the 'Sell' action and then add a tag or memo to identify it as a fee. This will reduce the number of shares in your account which should agree with the balance of your broker statement.
6 Posted by dwg on 20 Jan, 2017 04:31 AM
If you enter fees in the fee field in moneydance they are recorded under the category "Fees" which can be reported on.
In direct share transactions fees are always charged separately they are not funded by selling units as they are in Mutual Funds
7 Posted by Tom Freeman on 20 Jan, 2017 07:53 PM
The cost basis of the stock is what you paid for the stock, inclusive of fees. DWG is correct in that the best manner to input a stock transaction is total shares, total cost, fees. MD will calculate the cost per share, which is inclusive of the fees.
And DWG is also correct that if you want to track you investment fees, you can run a transaction report edited to show only the catagory for Investment fee and the dates yous wish.
Tom Freeman
Infinite Kind Support
8 Posted by dwg on 20 Jan, 2017 08:33 PM
Tom,
I believe you have made a mistake.
In a transaction record the price per share is exclusive of fees, it is the actual price per share of the stock.
In other words in the transaction record it is
No.of shares * price per share + fees = Amount
In the cost basis report the cost is inclusive of fees
Des
9 Posted by Tom Freeman on 20 Jan, 2017 09:09 PM
Yes DWG good catch. the register price per share is without the fee.
Tom Freeman
Infinite Kind Support
10 Posted by Gabriele EU on 23 Jan, 2017 09:05 AM
Hello tom,
I see you team had some discussion about my problem, in the end I personally agree with des, that the balance should count all the lines/voices in the operation, so
Share value * number of shares + fees
Anyway, to go back to my problem, are you going to fix the formula here or should I do it differently in order to deduct the fees from the balance?
Thank you
11 Posted by Tom Freeman on 23 Jan, 2017 08:22 PM
How are you inputting transaction?
I select a buy transaction. I put in 20 shares, then 1047.6 in transaction total then 104.22 in the fee and the total is adjusted to 1151.82
If i put in 20 shares then 104.22 fee then 1047.6 transaction total, then MD thinks I am telling it to take the 104 from the 1047.
The order in which you input informs MD on what to do.
When I manually enter transactions in my investment account. I generally do the share count, the amount deducted or added to my account as the total (in this case 1151.82) then the fee.
Tom Freeman
Infinite Kind Support
12 Posted by Charles on 23 Jan, 2017 11:48 PM
I have always followed the same procedure:
I always use keyboard input: I Tab through the entries I want to skip, and I enter the way it is provided to me by my broker:
# shares, tab, tab, tab, fee category, price per share, fee.
The behavior ought to be : "only the oldest variable entered by the user is (re)computed", but there might be a need to add a "tabbing through has a lower weight of entering than pressing enter" in order for this to correctly work.
Make note: as far as I know I had no issue before MD 2017.
13 Posted by Gabriele EU on 24 Jan, 2017 01:36 AM
Hello tom
I input share and price (amount will self calculate), then a few days later (usually 3, when I can actually see the operation in my bank) I add the fee
I will also adjust the transfer of money from bank account to stock account (since I might have different currency, example account in euro but stock in usd), with the real values
The issue here is that regardless to what I do, the cash balance is not affected
14 Posted by Tom Freeman on 06 Feb, 2017 03:08 PM
The app assumes that the transaction total amount is inclusive of all data. If you add the fee afterwards, the app assumes this was already in the transaction total. The best method is to adjust the total price paid in transaction from the bank statement then add the fee.
Is the transfer of funds a buy transfer, or a simple transfer from bank to broker. You should be able to edit the transfer.
Tom Freeman
Infinite Kind Support
15 Posted by Gabriele eu on 07 Feb, 2017 01:51 AM
ok if this is the wy it works, I will move in that direction, however in the previous version it worked differently, and in my opinion in a more logic way. any chance you are going to modify this area and bring it back as it was? so that the fees are calculated in their own field?
thank you for the assistance
16 Posted by Tom Freeman on 10 Feb, 2017 11:26 PM
I'm sorry I have just realized what the issue is. There was a change to the coding in the investment register so that when you edited a investment transaction the various fields would not change. Prior to this, if you have selected the wrong security and edited to the correct security then the price field would update to that security price. This would completely change the transaction total. There were a few other edits which would also change aspects of the transaction.
The solution was to lock done the transaction details so there would be no auxiliary changes with an edit. Any edit would have to be a manual change to any necessary fields in the transaction. This was done to minimize the chance of inadvertent changes to the transaction while editing that transaction.
So when you go back to a transaction to edit in the fee, the amount total is locked unless you change that as well. I went back to MD 2015 and saw that was not the case.
I will pass the feedback you gave on to the developers.
Tom Freeman
Infinite Kind Support
System closed this discussion on 12 May, 2017 11:30 PM.