Wrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares

richard-a's Avatar

richard-a

21 Jul, 2015 10:16 AM

I have found that the price history downloaded by the [Quotes & Exchange Rates] extension is inconsistent with the way that MD treats splits. Details follow :-
MD treats the price history as the actual market price of the security on the date given. Then in order to show a useful graphical price history, the graph in [Security Details] multiplies the market price by the split ratio (otherwise a 10:1 split (for example) would show a wild price variation at the time of the split).
The problem is that the extension downloads Yahoo prices that are already factored by the split ratio. This means that splits are double-accounted, so that the price graph is wrong. In the 10:1 example above the price graph before the split is out by a factor of 10.
I haven’t found any website where I can download the true market price on each day. Either they are factored by the split ratio or the price downloaded bears no resemblance to the actual price from my brokers statements (or they simply don't go back far enough in time).
Has anyone found a solution to this?
If MD allowed export of the price history I could correct the data then re-import them, but export is not possible.

  1. 1 Posted by richard-a on 21 Jul, 2015 10:20 AM

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    I should add that I have had to switch off the historical price downloads from Yahoo to avoid further corrupt data. The current price is OK because it is not factored by any split ratio.

  2. 2 Posted by Tom Freeman on 22 Jul, 2015 09:29 PM

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    Could you provide the ticker symbol of the split stock so i can run a test data file. I can then show it to the developer working on Investment issues.

    Tom Freeman
    Infinite Kind Support

  3. 3 Posted by richard-a on 23 Jul, 2015 08:25 AM

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    Tom,

     

    Thanks for your reply.

     

    The main two shares that had this problem were

     

    WOS.L Wosleley

     

    Splits

    Date Ratio

    2/12/13 30:31=0.9677

    10/12/12 22:23=0.9565

    2/4/09 1:10=0.1

     

     

     

    VOD.L Vodafone

     

    Splits

    Date Ratio

    31/7/06 7:8=0.875

    24/2/14 6:11= 0.54545455

     

    Screenshot follows of VOD history at the time of the latest split*. These prices would have come from the MyD extension.

    As you can see the history price roughly halves at split time.

     

    * This was taken from an archive MyD file of February 2015 as I have wiped the VOD history in the current file to remove the probem.

     

     

    I should clarify that my price histories before June 2013 were downloaded from Yahoo as CSVs, rather than using the extension. This was done because at June 2013 I was migrating from MS Money. However the way MyD handled the VOD split in 2014 (above) suggests that the MyD extension downloads prices from Yahoo that are similar to what they display on their website.

     

    The price history given by Yahoo Finance does definitely have this problem (of applying the split ratio). See for example VOD at the time of the split February 2014. Link follows :-

                    https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=VOD.L <https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=VOD.L&b=25&a=09&c=1988&e=23&d=06&f=2015&g=m> &b=25&a=09&c=1988&e=23&d=06&f=2015&g=m

    Oddly they don't factor the price immediately before the split (3rd Feb) but do before that.

     

     

     

    Ancillary Notes

     

    I found when trying to fix this problem that for various shares, the pre-split prices shown by Google & Yahoo often bore little resemblance to the share prices shown in the paper statements from my broker (I take the latter to be authoritative). The difference was not removed by applying the split ratio to the Yahoo price.

     

    The Yahoo web pages display different prices if you select ‘weekly’ or ‘monthly’ from the default daily ones. They are not giving a time‑averaged price because sometimes the week/month price is outside the range of the daily prices for that period.

     

     

     

    Regards,

     

    Richard Austin

  4. 4 Posted by richard-a on 27 Jul, 2015 10:23 AM

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    This problem also leads to badly wrong balances in the built-in report [Account Balances]. I had a holding that was worth about £2,000 that was reported as about £20,000 because of a 1:10 reverse split.
    This is because the report takes the price directly from the history and correctly factors the holding by the split ratio. In the case above the current holding of 13 shares became 136 shares pre-split. Which is fine until Yahoo gives pre-split prices that are a factor of 10 too high.

  5. 5 Posted by Tom Freeman on 30 Jul, 2015 10:24 PM

    Tom Freeman's Avatar

    Richard

    I am trying to recreate this in a data file and am having a hard time doing so. Part of the issue is that i am not sure if the extension overwrites historical price history with the new post split price history. There are some internal development issues with how MD handles historical pricing for graphs and reports post split. i do know there are some issues with historical price listings.

    I am going to pass this on to one of our development staff who is more knowledgeable about the internal working of MD than I and maybe able to better advise.

    Can you also respond with the build of Moneydance you are using. (help > about Moneydance) The latest build is 1260. There have been a number of investment account improvements made from earlier builds. You can download that from here: http://infinitekind.com/preview

    Tom Freeman
    Infinite Kind Support

  6. 6 Posted by richard-a on 31 Jul, 2015 07:25 AM

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    Tom,

     

    Thanks.

     

    I have v 2014.5 (980)

     

    The ‘Preview’ version 1260 looks like a beta. Is this right?

     

    I have MyD update set to this

     

     

    So I think I must have the latest stable version.

     

    I’m slightly puzzled by your mention of history problems post-split, as these would not be factored by any split ratio. My problems as you know are pre-split.

     

     

    Regards,

     

    Richard

  7. 7 Posted by richard-a on 31 Jul, 2015 08:17 AM

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    Help!
    At your suggestion I have installed the latest stable version Build 1225, but the single most important feature has gone - the cashflow forecaster extension. It no longer appears in [Manage Extensions].
    The current page for the extension
    https://bitbucket.org/kevinstembridge/moneydance-forecaster/wiki/Home
    says that extension is available in Manage Extensions, which it isn’t.

    I would not have bought MD without this feature. How do I get it back?

    The [Balance Predictor] is no use to me.

  8. 8 Posted by Scott Meehan on 31 Jul, 2015 02:31 PM

    Scott Meehan's Avatar

    Hi Richard,

    The Forecaster extension was developed by a third party. He [Kevin Stembridge] has upgraded the Forecaster to be able to work with Moneydance 2015.

    The extension remains free to use but the free version is restricted to a 1 month forecast. There is a $10 fee to purchase the Forecaster.

    You can download both the free and paid versions of the Forecaster here:
    http://www.moneyforesight.com/

    If you'd prefer to downgrade to Moneydance 2014 and continue using that, let me know and I can give you instructions for doing so.

    Scott Meehan
    Infinite Kind Support

  9. 9 Posted by richard-a on 31 Jul, 2015 03:05 PM

    richard-a's Avatar

    Scott,

     

    Yes, as I have used the 2015 version & found it very buggy, I want to revert to 2014. I may try it again in a year’s time to see how it is.

     

    Bugs I have found in 2015 (in a very short time of using it) are :-

     

    · Reports based on the built-in reports [Filter Transactions] or [Investment Transactions] do not display properly if you subtotal by account. The transactions are scrambled together. I spent a long time getting these reports to work & this is very tiresome.

     

    · Altering the column widths in Reports based on the built-in reports [Filter Transactions] then memorising them doesn’t preserve the change. In fact I do not even get the warning ‘This item already exists’.

     

    · It is very difficult to read the names of Reminders in the Reminders page, as the names are greyed-out, even when the transaction has not been moved to the Register.

     

     

    By the way I concur with many other users who have said that MD should have a decent cashflow forecaster built-in. This is fundamental. I would never have bought MD in the first place if it did not have this. And, no, the built in report [Balance Predictor] is no use to me whatsoever.

     

    I did buy the later version of the cashflow forecaster but all my carefully designed favourites were lost in the process & I can’t recover what they were.

     

     

    Regards,

     

    Richard A

  10. 10 Posted by Scott Meehan on 31 Jul, 2015 03:12 PM

    Scott Meehan's Avatar

    Hi Richard,

    If you'd like to revert to Moneydance 2014, then I would suggest going to Help -> Show Documents Folder in Moneydance.

    Once that folder opens, create a new folder named:

    2015 Backup

    and drag your *yourfilename*.moneydance data set into that new folder.

    After that, go to Help -> Show Archive Folder in Moneydance and copy the *yourfilename*.moneydance.zip file to the Documents folder you opened earlier. Then, unzip the zip file that you moved to extract your original data set. Please note that this won't have any information that you've added since using Moneydance 2015; to get that information, you can export your data to a Moneydance 2010 file instead of restoring your data by going to File -> Export in Moneydance. The Moneydance 2010 file format doesn't support transaction attachments, so you'll lose those with this method.

    After that, close and remove your Moneydance 2015 application and download Moneydance 2014 from here:

    http://infinitekind.com/download_2014

    and open Moneydance 2014. Your data should then open up again.

    If it doesn't, then try resetting your config.dict and see if you can open Moneydance 2014 then. To do this, you have to rename your config.dict file. If you're using Mac OS X, then it should be located at one of these locations:

    ~/Library/Containers/com.infinitekind.MoneydanceOSX/Data/Library/Application Support/Moneydance/config.dict

    or:

    ~/Library/Application Support/Moneydance/config.dict

    You can open Finder and select Go -> Go to Folder again and enter those locations individually to bring up those folders.

    Scott Meehan
    Infinite Kind Support

  11. 11 Posted by richard-a on 01 Aug, 2015 10:35 AM

    richard-a's Avatar

    Hello Scott,

     

    Thanks for the info.

     

    I’ve done quite a few changes since moving to 2015, including changing a lot of Reminders.

     

    Does the ‘export to 2010 format’ create a full MD file for the 2010 version, or does it just export transactions that I import to the recovered 2010 file?

     

    What’s the best way to flag up bugs in MD 2015?

     

     

    Regards,

     

    Richard A

  12. 12 Posted by Kevin Stembridg... on 02 Aug, 2015 02:17 PM

    Kevin Stembridge's Avatar

    Hi Richard,
    I'm the developer of the Money Foresight extension. I just wanted to apologise for the fact that Money Foresight doesn't migrate your saved favourites from the Forecaster extension. That was just me taking shortcuts I'm afraid.

    However, it's probably not too late to recover your old favourites, which are still in the Moneydance data file. I might be able to add a feature to Money Foresight that will read the Forecaster favourites and convert them. If you'd like me to look into this further please raise a ticket on the following site and we can discuss it there.

    https://bitbucket.org/mahanaroad/moneyforesight/issues

    Cheers,

    Kevin

  13. 13 Posted by Scott Meehan on 03 Aug, 2015 01:59 PM

    Scott Meehan's Avatar

    Hi Richard,

    Exporting to Moneydance to the Moneydance 2010 format will export all your data, except any transaction attachments you have because the format doesn't support them.

    If you'd like to let us know about a bug, you can either just reply here and tell us about it, or create a new thread describing the bug and we'll see if we can reproduce it.

    Scott Meehan
    Infinite Kind Support

  14. 14 Posted by richard-a on 03 Aug, 2015 02:31 PM

    richard-a's Avatar

    Scott,
    Thanks for the reply.
    So just to make sure I'm clear, the reverse migration route (2015 to 2010) is :-
    (1) File | Export
          Format: MoneyDance 2010
          All accounts, all dates.
    (2) Uninstall MD 2015
    (3) If necessary, rename the export file to be the current file <yourfilename*.moneydance>
    (4) Install MD 2014
          Should open the exported file, including all Reminders, custom reports etc.
         (Only thing lost would be attachments to transactions) Is this right?

  15. 15 Posted by Scott Meehan on 03 Aug, 2015 03:50 PM

    Scott Meehan's Avatar

    Hi Richard,

    That's close, though you won't want to rename the Moneydance 2010 file--you'll just open it with the Open Other function in Moneydance 2014 to open it. And yes, the only thing lost would be transaction attachments and everything else should be present.

    Scott Meehan
    Infinite Kind Support

  16. 16 Posted by richard-a on 04 Aug, 2015 11:51 AM

    richard-a's Avatar

    Tom,
    I've created a dummy test MD file & tested WOS & VOD prices.

    The share updater only seems to download a history going back one year. As all the splits in WOS & VOD that gave problems are over a year ago I don't think you would get any history going back far enough to see a problem.

    Of course my prices at the time of the 2014 split would have been downloaded at that time so wouldn't have this problem.

    Richard

  17. 17 Posted by Tom Freeman on 07 Aug, 2015 08:32 PM

    Tom Freeman's Avatar

    I think you were correct when you assumed that MD adjusts the historical prices for the graph this is in conflict with the historical price data that comes from Yahoo.

    When I asked the lead developer he said that the splits are adjusted when generating reports or graphs - basically at times when it makes sense to see the relative prices that are consistent. The problem is that the Yahoo extension populates prices that have already been adjusted.

    If you had a number of transactions for this security you could populate your history from transactions and this would solve the issue.

    Tom Freeman
    Infinite Kind Support

  18. 18 Posted by richard-a on 14 Aug, 2015 08:33 AM

    richard-a's Avatar

    Tom,

    Since there is a conflict between MD & the Yahoo downloads, should this not be raised as a bug to be fixed?

    What you suggest is a workaround not a solution to the issue. Users will be unaware that this is happening and get nonsense stock reports. Also, the workaround is very labour intensive. The Yahoo price history pages do state when splits occur & give the ratio. So it seems that MD could take account of this.

    I had to do something like your suggestion: I used the Yahoo extension to get prices back to the most recent split. I then used broker statements & transactions to fill in before that.

    Richard

  19. 19 Posted by richard-a on 17 Aug, 2015 01:08 PM

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    On 3rd August I created a default MD file to test price history downloads for recent splits

    Found some recent splits: HBI & Visa (the share)
    Added HBI, split 4:1 on 3rd March 2015, done from History window, not Securities Detail.
    Downloaded history - extension defaults to use Yahoo US. History looks OK, that is price in History drops by 4 at split. Graph is continuous at split date, so MyD is factoring price as expected. Spike in graph on 3/3 – see below.

    Yahoo UK historical prices has 32.32 day after split, 127.95 day before. CSV download also has this.
    Google UK historical prices has 32.32 day after split, 31.99 day before. CSV download also has this.
    Conclusion: Yahoo UK gives correct (that is market) price, Google UK wrongly factors it. Don't know whether extension uses Google US.
    Note: Yahoo UK does this share correctly but WOS & VOD wrongly, so Yahoo is inconsistent.
    Added Visa share. Split 4:1 March 2015 done from [Securities Details] Split button.
    Downloaded history. History looks OK, that is price in History drops by 4 at split. Graph is continuous at split date. Spike in graph on 18/3.

    Suspect spike is cos split should be dated as ex-date (day after split) not split date. Changed for both shares.
    Spikes on graph gone.
    Conclusion: Have to date split day after the apparent day, i.e. the ex-date.

    Looked at histories on Yahoo UK. The close price matches the MyD download.
    Cannot get to Yahoo US in browser. Forced to use UK.

  20. System closed this discussion on 19 Mar, 2016 04:59 AM.

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