tag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:/discussions/investments/246-wrong-security-history-downloaded-from-yahoo-finance-for-split-sharesInfinite Kind: Discussion 2016-03-19T05:07:49Ztag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/374373782015-07-21T10:16:56Z2015-07-21T10:16:56ZWrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares<div><p>I have found that the price history downloaded by the [Quotes
& Exchange Rates] extension is inconsistent with the way that
MD treats splits. Details follow :-<br>
MD treats the price history as the actual market price of the
security on the date given. Then in order to show a useful
graphical price history, the graph in [Security Details] multiplies
the market price by the split ratio (otherwise a 10:1 split (for
example) would show a wild price variation at the time of the
split).<br>
The problem is that the extension downloads Yahoo prices that are
already factored by the split ratio. This means that splits are
double-accounted, so that the price graph is wrong. In the 10:1
example above the price graph before the split is out by a factor
of 10.<br>
I haven’t found any website where I can download the true
market price on each day. Either they are factored by the split
ratio or the price downloaded bears no resemblance to the actual
price from my brokers statements (or they simply don't go back far
enough in time).<br>
Has anyone found a solution to this?<br>
If MD allowed export of the price history I could correct the data
then re-import them, but export is not possible.</p></div>richard-atag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/374373782015-07-21T10:20:51Z2015-07-21T10:20:51ZWrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares<div><p>I should add that I have had to switch off the historical price
downloads from Yahoo to avoid further corrupt data. The current
price is OK because it is not factored by any split ratio.</p></div>richard-atag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/374373782015-07-22T21:29:06Z2015-07-22T21:29:06ZWrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares<div><p>Could you provide the ticker symbol of the split stock so i can
run a test data file. I can then show it to the developer working
on Investment issues.</p>
<p>Tom Freeman<br>
Infinite Kind Support</p></div>Tom Freemantag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/374373782015-07-23T08:25:35Z2015-07-23T08:25:35ZWrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares<div><p>Tom,</p>
<p>Thanks for your reply.</p>
<p>The main two shares that had this problem were</p>
<p>WOS.L Wosleley</p>
<p>Splits</p>
<p>Date Ratio</p>
<p>2/12/13 30:31=0.9677</p>
<p>10/12/12 22:23=0.9565</p>
<p>2/4/09 1:10=0.1</p>
<p>VOD.L Vodafone</p>
<p>Splits</p>
<p>Date Ratio</p>
<p>31/7/06 7:8=0.875</p>
<p>24/2/14 6:11= 0.54545455</p>
<p>Screenshot follows of VOD history at the time of the latest
split*. These prices would have come from the MyD extension.</p>
<p>As you can see the history price roughly halves at split
time.</p>
<ul>
<li>This was taken from an archive MyD file of February 2015 as I
have wiped the VOD history in the current file to remove the
probem.</li>
</ul>
<p>I should clarify that my price histories before June 2013 were
downloaded from Yahoo as CSVs, rather than using the extension.
This was done because at June 2013 I was migrating from MS Money.
However the way MyD handled the VOD split in 2014 (above) suggests
that the MyD extension downloads prices from Yahoo that are similar
to what they display on their website.</p>
<p>The price history given by Yahoo Finance does definitely have
this problem (of applying the split ratio). See for example VOD at
the time of the split February 2014. Link follows :-</p>
<pre>
<code> https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=VOD.L <https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=VOD.L&b=25&a=09&c=1988&e=23&d=06&f=2015&g=m> &b=25&a=09&c=1988&e=23&d=06&f=2015&g=m</code>
</pre>
<p>Oddly they don't factor the price immediately before the split
(3rd Feb) but do before that.</p>
<p>Ancillary Notes</p>
<p>I found when trying to fix this problem that for various shares,
the pre-split prices shown by Google & Yahoo often bore little
resemblance to the share prices shown in the paper statements from
my broker (I take the latter to be authoritative). The difference
was not removed by applying the split ratio to the Yahoo price.</p>
<p>The Yahoo web pages display different prices if you select
‘weekly’ or ‘monthly’ from the default
daily ones. They are not giving a time‑averaged price because
sometimes the week/month price is outside the range of the daily
prices for that period.</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Richard Austin</p></div>richard-atag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/374373782015-07-27T10:23:43Z2015-07-27T11:43:19ZWrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares<div><p>This problem also leads to badly wrong balances in the built-in
report [Account Balances]. I had a holding that was worth about
£2,000 that was reported as about £20,000 because of a
1:10 reverse split.<br>
This is because the report takes the price directly from the
history and correctly factors the holding by the split ratio. In
the case above the current holding of 13 shares became 136 shares
pre-split. Which is fine until Yahoo gives pre-split prices that
are a factor of 10 too high.</p></div>richard-atag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/374373782015-07-30T22:24:33Z2015-07-30T22:24:33ZWrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares<div><p>Richard</p>
<p>I am trying to recreate this in a data file and am having a hard
time doing so. Part of the issue is that i am not sure if the
extension overwrites historical price history with the new post
split price history. There are some internal development issues
with how MD handles historical pricing for graphs and reports post
split. i do know there are some issues with historical price
listings.</p>
<p>I am going to pass this on to one of our development staff who
is more knowledgeable about the internal working of MD than I and
maybe able to better advise.</p>
<p>Can you also respond with the build of Moneydance you are using.
(help > about Moneydance) The latest build is 1260. There have
been a number of investment account improvements made from earlier
builds. You can download that from here: <a href="http://infinitekind.com/preview">http://infinitekind.com/preview</a></p>
<p>Tom Freeman<br>
Infinite Kind Support</p></div>Tom Freemantag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/374373782015-07-31T07:25:51Z2015-07-31T07:25:51ZWrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares<div><p>Tom,</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>I have v 2014.5 (980)</p>
<p>The ‘Preview’ version 1260 looks like a beta. Is
this right?</p>
<p>I have MyD update set to this</p>
<p>So I think I must have the latest stable version.</p>
<p>I’m slightly puzzled by your mention of history problems
post-split, as these would not be factored by any split ratio. My
problems as you know are pre-split.</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Richard</p></div>richard-atag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/374373782015-07-31T08:17:51Z2015-07-31T08:17:51ZWrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares<div><p>Help!<br>
At your suggestion I have installed the latest stable version Build
1225, but the single most important feature has gone - the cashflow
forecaster extension. It no longer appears in [Manage
Extensions].<br>
The current page for the extension<br>
<a href="https://bitbucket.org/kevinstembridge/moneydance-forecaster/wiki/Home">
https://bitbucket.org/kevinstembridge/moneydance-forecaster/wiki/Home</a><br>
says that extension is available in Manage Extensions, which it
isn’t.</p>
<p>I would not have bought MD without this feature. How do I get it
back?</p>
<p>The [Balance Predictor] is no use to me.</p></div>richard-atag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/374373782015-07-31T14:31:40Z2015-07-31T14:31:40ZWrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares<div><p>Hi Richard,</p>
<p>The Forecaster extension was developed by a third party. He
[Kevin Stembridge] has upgraded the Forecaster to be able to work
with Moneydance 2015.</p>
<p>The extension remains free to use but the free version is
restricted to a 1 month forecast. There is a $10 fee to purchase
the Forecaster.</p>
<p>You can download both the free and paid versions of the
Forecaster here:<br>
<a href="http://www.moneyforesight.com/">http://www.moneyforesight.com/</a></p>
<p>If you'd prefer to downgrade to Moneydance 2014 and continue
using that, let me know and I can give you instructions for doing
so.</p>
<p>Scott Meehan<br>
Infinite Kind Support</p></div>Scott Meehantag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/374373782015-07-31T15:05:10Z2015-07-31T15:05:10ZWrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares<div><p>Scott,</p>
<p>Yes, as I have used the 2015 version & found it very buggy,
I want to revert to 2014. I may try it again in a year’s time
to see how it is.</p>
<p>Bugs I have found in 2015 (in a very short time of using it) are
:-</p>
<p>· Reports based on the built-in reports [Filter
Transactions] or [Investment Transactions] do not display properly
if you subtotal by account. The transactions are scrambled
together. I spent a long time getting these reports to work &
this is very tiresome.</p>
<p>· Altering the column widths in Reports based on the
built-in reports [Filter Transactions] then memorising them
doesn’t preserve the change. In fact I do not even get the
warning ‘This item already exists’.</p>
<p>· It is very difficult to read the names of Reminders in
the Reminders page, as the names are greyed-out, even when the
transaction has not been moved to the Register.</p>
<p>By the way I concur with many other users who have said that MD
should have a decent cashflow forecaster built-in. This is
fundamental. I would never have bought MD in the first place if it
did not have this. And, no, the built in report [Balance Predictor]
is no use to me whatsoever.</p>
<p>I did buy the later version of the cashflow forecaster but all
my carefully designed favourites were lost in the process & I
can’t recover what they were.</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Richard A</p></div>richard-atag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/374373782015-07-31T15:12:50Z2015-07-31T15:12:50ZWrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares<div><p>Hi Richard,</p>
<p>If you'd like to revert to Moneydance 2014, then I would suggest
going to Help -> Show Documents Folder in Moneydance.</p>
<p>Once that folder opens, create a new folder named:</p>
<p>2015 Backup</p>
<p>and drag your <em>yourfilename</em>.moneydance data set into
that new folder.</p>
<p>After that, go to Help -> Show Archive Folder in Moneydance
and copy the <em>yourfilename</em>.moneydance.zip file to the
Documents folder you opened earlier. Then, unzip the zip file that
you moved to extract your original data set. Please note that this
won't have any information that you've added since using Moneydance
2015; to get that information, you can export your data to a
Moneydance 2010 file instead of restoring your data by going to
File -> Export in Moneydance. The Moneydance 2010 file format
doesn't support transaction attachments, so you'll lose those with
this method.</p>
<p>After that, close and remove your Moneydance 2015 application
and download Moneydance 2014 from here:</p>
<p><a href="http://infinitekind.com/download_2014">http://infinitekind.com/download_2014</a></p>
<p>and open Moneydance 2014. Your data should then open up
again.</p>
<p>If it doesn't, then try resetting your config.dict and see if
you can open Moneydance 2014 then. To do this, you have to rename
your config.dict file. If you're using Mac OS X, then it should be
located at one of these locations:</p>
<p>
~/Library/Containers/com.infinitekind.MoneydanceOSX/Data/Library/Application
Support/Moneydance/config.dict</p>
<p>or:</p>
<p>~/Library/Application Support/Moneydance/config.dict</p>
<p>You can open Finder and select Go -> Go to Folder again and
enter those locations individually to bring up those folders.</p>
<p>Scott Meehan<br>
Infinite Kind Support</p></div>Scott Meehantag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/374373782015-08-01T10:35:05Z2015-08-01T10:59:47ZWrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares<div><p>Hello Scott,</p>
<p>Thanks for the info.</p>
<p>I’ve done quite a few changes since moving to 2015,
including changing a lot of Reminders.</p>
<p>Does the ‘export to 2010 format’ create a full MD
file for the 2010 version, or does it just export transactions that
I import to the recovered 2010 file?</p>
<p>What’s the best way to flag up bugs in MD 2015?</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Richard A</p></div>richard-atag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/374373782015-08-02T14:17:27Z2015-08-02T14:17:27ZWrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares<div><p>Hi Richard,<br>
I'm the developer of the Money Foresight extension. I just wanted
to apologise for the fact that Money Foresight doesn't migrate your
saved favourites from the Forecaster extension. That was just me
taking shortcuts I'm afraid.</p>
<p>However, it's probably not too late to recover your old
favourites, which are still in the Moneydance data file. I might be
able to add a feature to Money Foresight that will read the
Forecaster favourites and convert them. If you'd like me to look
into this further please raise a ticket on the following site and
we can discuss it there.</p>
<p><a href="https://bitbucket.org/mahanaroad/moneyforesight/issues">https://bitbucket.org/mahanaroad/moneyforesight/issues</a></p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Kevin</p></div>Kevin Stembridgetag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/374373782015-08-03T13:59:38Z2015-08-03T13:59:38ZWrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares<div><p>Hi Richard,</p>
<p>Exporting to Moneydance to the Moneydance 2010 format will
export all your data, except any transaction attachments you have
because the format doesn't support them.</p>
<p>If you'd like to let us know about a bug, you can either just
reply here and tell us about it, or create a new thread describing
the bug and we'll see if we can reproduce it.</p>
<p>Scott Meehan<br>
Infinite Kind Support</p></div>Scott Meehantag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/374373782015-08-03T14:31:56Z2015-08-03T14:32:36ZWrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares<div><p>Scott,<br>
Thanks for the reply.<br>
So just to make sure I'm clear, the reverse migration route (2015
to 2010) is :-<br>
(1) File | Export Format: MoneyDance 2010 All accounts, all dates.
(2) Uninstall MD 2015 (3) If necessary, rename the export file to
be the current file (4) Install MD 2014 Should open the exported
file, including all Reminders, custom reports etc. (Only thing lost
would be attachments to transactions) Is this right?</p></div>richard-atag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/374373782015-08-03T15:50:43Z2015-08-03T15:50:43ZWrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares<div><p>Hi Richard,</p>
<p>That's close, though you won't want to rename the Moneydance
2010 file--you'll just open it with the Open Other function in
Moneydance 2014 to open it. And yes, the only thing lost would be
transaction attachments and everything else should be present.</p>
<p>Scott Meehan<br>
Infinite Kind Support</p></div>Scott Meehantag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/374373782015-08-04T11:51:15Z2015-08-04T11:51:54ZWrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares<div><p>Tom,<br>
I've created a dummy test MD file & tested WOS & VOD
prices.</p>
<p>The share updater only seems to download a history going back
one year. As all the splits in WOS & VOD that gave problems are
over a year ago I don't think you would get any history going back
far enough to see a problem.</p>
<p>Of course my prices at the time of the 2014 split would have
been downloaded at that time so wouldn't have this problem.</p>
<p>Richard</p></div>richard-atag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/374373782015-08-07T20:32:16Z2015-08-07T20:32:16ZWrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares<div><p>I think you were correct when you assumed that MD adjusts the
historical prices for the graph this is in conflict with the
historical price data that comes from Yahoo.</p>
<p>When I asked the lead developer he said that the splits are
adjusted when generating reports or graphs - basically at times
when it makes sense to see the relative prices that are consistent.
The problem is that the Yahoo extension populates prices that have
already been adjusted.</p>
<p>If you had a number of transactions for this security you could
populate your history from transactions and this would solve the
issue.</p>
<p>Tom Freeman<br>
Infinite Kind Support</p></div>Tom Freemantag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/374373782015-08-14T08:33:23Z2015-08-14T08:33:23ZWrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares<div><p>Tom,</p>
<p>Since there is a conflict between MD & the Yahoo downloads,
should this not be raised as a bug to be fixed?</p>
<p>What you suggest is a workaround not a solution to the issue.
Users will be unaware that this is happening and get nonsense stock
reports. Also, the workaround is very labour intensive. The Yahoo
price history pages do state when splits occur & give the
ratio. So it seems that MD could take account of this.</p>
<p>I had to do something like your suggestion: I used the Yahoo
extension to get prices back to the most recent split. I then used
broker statements & transactions to fill in before that.</p>
<p>Richard</p></div>richard-atag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/374373782015-08-17T13:08:43Z2015-08-17T13:08:43ZWrong Security History Downloaded from Yahoo Finance for Split Shares<div><p>On 3rd August I created a default MD file to test price history
downloads for recent splits</p>
<p>Found some recent splits: HBI & Visa (the share)<br>
Added HBI, split 4:1 on 3rd March 2015, done from History window,
not Securities Detail.<br>
Downloaded history - extension defaults to use Yahoo US. History
looks OK, that is price in History drops by 4 at split. Graph is
continuous at split date, so MyD is factoring price as expected.
Spike in graph on 3/3 – see below.</p>
<p>Yahoo UK historical prices has 32.32 day after split, 127.95 day
before. CSV download also has this.<br>
Google UK historical prices has 32.32 day after split, 31.99 day
before. CSV download also has this.<br>
Conclusion: Yahoo UK gives correct (that is market) price, Google
UK wrongly factors it. Don't know whether extension uses Google
US.<br>
Note: Yahoo UK does this share correctly but WOS & VOD wrongly,
so Yahoo is inconsistent.<br>
Added Visa share. Split 4:1 March 2015 done from [Securities
Details] Split button.<br>
Downloaded history. History looks OK, that is price in History
drops by 4 at split. Graph is continuous at split date. Spike in
graph on 18/3.</p>
<p>Suspect spike is cos split should be dated as ex-date (day after
split) not split date. Changed for both shares.<br>
Spikes on graph gone.<br>
Conclusion: Have to date split day after the apparent day, i.e. the
ex-date.</p>
<p>Looked at histories on Yahoo UK. The close price matches the MyD
download.<br>
Cannot get to Yahoo US in browser. Forced to use UK.</p></div>richard-a