investment fees not subtracted from cash balance

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lists5040

16 Jan, 2018 01:01 AM

I download my security transactions from Fidelity and have had no problems until recently. (I think the latest version 6, updated to allow the security downloads from Alpha was when the problem started. When I purchase (or sell) a security, there may be a fee. The correct fee downloads but the fee is not subtracted from the cash balance. It has always done so in the past. Now I have to go through the all of the transactions and manually enter a transaction adding or subtracting the fee. This doesn't make sense -if the fee is downloaded and entered into the transaction, why isn't it subtracted from the cash balance? (It is on the Fidelity website of transactions.)

Nancy

  1. 1 Posted by lists5040 on 21 Jan, 2018 07:41 PM

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    Is there no answer to this? Must I make an additional transaction to the downloaded transactions for the fee charged for the transaction? If the fee is downloaded into Moneydance as part of the transaction, why isn't it subtracted from the cash balance when purchasing (or selling) a stock?

    Nancy

  2. 2 Posted by steve on 27 Jan, 2018 03:18 AM

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    I just noticed this! I was wondering why my cash balance was off. Please advise as to when this will be fixed. Thank you.

    Steve

  3. 3 Posted by kking18474 on 28 Jan, 2018 10:13 PM

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    I too am seeing this since version 1656 or 2017.6. I've tried different expense categories, but still no deduction from the balance of the sale.

    In my case this is not for downloaded transactions. I am entering manually, but no fee was subtracted. I just re-entered the transaction from scratch and could not re-create. Must have been some user error on my part, deleting original transaction.

    Kasey

  4. 4 Posted by dwg on 29 Jan, 2018 02:01 AM

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    What do the originally download transactions look like in the register?

  5. 5 Posted by lists5040 on 29 Jan, 2018 04:16 PM

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    On Jan 28, 2018, at 7:01 PM, dwg <[email blocked]> wrote:

    /like this:



    Notice that the stock is corrected added or subtracted but the fee is not.  That means that the cash amount is always incorrect.

    Nancy

    / Please reply above this line 
    ================================================== 

    From: dwg

    What do the originally download transactions look like in the register?

    On Sun, Jan 28 at 02:13 PM PST, kking18474 wrote:

    I too am seeing this since version 1656 or 2017.6. I've tried different expense categories, but still no deduction from the balance of the sale.

    Kasey

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  6. 6 Posted by dwg on 29 Jan, 2018 09:12 PM

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    I'm not seeing a problem here, the fee is built into the transaction, I've set it out as journal entries and you can see the fee rolling into the transaction total. This is what I would expect to see when looking at share transactions.

        Opening Balance                                            15.59
    
    16/ Buy 359 shares Macys @ 26.43529    9490.27
        Add Fees                              4.95       
                                           -------
                                           9495.22              -9479.63
    
    16/ Sell 83 shares Alamo @ 114.5246    9505.55
        Less Fees                             5.17
                                          --------
                                           9500.38                 20.75
    
    17/ Buy 278 shares Pfizer @ 36.83528  10240.21
        Add Fees                              4.95
                                          --------
                                          10245.16              -10224.41
    
  7. 7 Posted by steve on 30 Jan, 2018 02:18 AM

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    dwg,

    I see your point. The way I thought it worked was that:

    Amount = Shares * Price

    ...and then the fee was subtracted and reflected in the cash balance.

    What Moneydance is doing is:

    Amount = (Shares * Price ) - Fee

    Odd that I never noticed that before. In my case, the reason the cash balance was off is that Schwab does not categorize "Accrued Interest" as a fee when buying municipal bonds, and so Moneydance need downloaded it causing the amount to be artificially low. I had to click on each transaction in Schwab to find the accrued interest and manually enter that number as a fee for each transaction in Moneydance.

    Thanks for pointing this out.

    Steve

  8. 8 Posted by dwg on 30 Jan, 2018 03:39 AM

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    In the real world with brokers the Commission/Brokerage fee is always added to the transaction for purchases and deducted from the proceeds in sales, Now how a company may present the transactions in a download is another matter, you hope they do it appropriately but ... It is certainly possible at some point they presented it separately but in the case of commission on share trading that is not how I believe it should be done.

    I had to think about your bond example for a while. This is what I think you may be doing. You are buying an existing bond, to do so the existing investor wants to get some return for time he/she has owned it. This would be the accrued interest perhaps with a discount or a premium applied depending on the bond rate, general rates, state of the market, yaad yada yada.

    I do not see this as a fee, in the example I outlined it is more of an interest expense, as what I see happening is something like say the interest is yearly and is $100 and you bought the bond exactly in the middle of the year and the accrued interest you paid was $50, as the owner at the end of 12 months you receive $100 interest but you paid out $50 so your net interest is $50

  9. 9 Posted by steve on 30 Jan, 2018 04:41 AM

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    Your analysis of the bond transaction is correct.

    Schwab's website shows the transaction as the product of the number of shares times the share price, and then subtracts the accrued interest. Schwab doesn't categorize the accrued interest as a fee, so of course Moneydance doesn't see it - it only sees number of shares and price per share. I added an expense category in Monedancy called "investment: accrued interest" and added the interest in the "fee" field in the register. This works fine for me, and my cash balance is now correct.

    It's the first time I've purchased municipal bonds, so this is new to me.

    Steve

  10. System closed this discussion on 01 May, 2018 04:50 AM.

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