Unable to enter Securiy Transaction for $0

Brad's Avatar

Brad

18 Jul, 2019 01:55 AM

Hi,

I have recently swapped to Moneydance after 20+ years of using MS Money. Due to the amount of closed accounts I had over in MS Money, whilst I imported some QIF files, I largely transferred the balances only. Starting afresh from our new financial year.

I did this also with my share (stock) investments which worked out fine. I then decided to rebuild my share investment history manually by entering the actual trades. I have some scenarios when I need to enter $0 value for a trade. Either as a Return of Capital, or the shares were gifted as part of an initial offering.

For some reason, I cannot enter $0 for the share price, although I can zero the total cost to $0.

As an example, the health fund I belonged to at the time went public and issued it's current members with an initial trance of shares at no cost.

In screenshot one attached, I enter a buyXfr transaction for 1900 shares at $0. For some reason the share price keeps defaulting to $100. I can overwrite the $100 to another value but not to $0. I can overwrite the total to $0 which it will accept.

Screenshot two shows the transaction from a Securities view. It actually shows the transaction correctly as a total of $0 but still maintains the 100 in the initial share price. Subsequent additional trades seem to be treated correctly with the average cost basis worked from the $0 and not $100 initial share price value.

Screenshot 3 shows another curiosity, that is the dropdown selection on share price shows two options /AUD or AUD/. I am not sure what this means or pertains to.

I have read the online manuals and any relevant posts that i can find, and have tried a number of different scenarios in how i input the data, but cant workout what I may have done incorrectly.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks very much Brad

  1. 1 Posted by dwg on 18 Jul, 2019 03:55 AM

    dwg's Avatar

    I'm a fellow user.

    There are no screenshots attached to your post.

    I suspect however that what you are seeing are placeholder values, so it is not uncommon to see a correct amount and a price often 100 or 0.01 but this price is not actually used anywhere, ideally it should just a show as a blank even if internally Moneydance needs a placeholder.

    If you want to post screen shots I suggest you use the web interface, your thread is:

    https://infinitekind.tenderapp.com/discussions/investments/4554-unable-to-enter-securiy-transaction-for-0

  2. 2 Posted by bradfergu on 18 Jul, 2019 08:53 AM

    bradfergu's Avatar

    Thks dwg,

    Didn't realise the screenshots didn't attached.
    Here they are now.

    Yes,since posting I have also tried on another PC. I was using a Mac when it defaulted to $100 and now trying it on Windows 7, it seems to default to $.01 as you have noted.

     Just not the way I would expect it.

    Rgds Brad

  3. 3 Posted by dwg on 18 Jul, 2019 09:17 AM

    dwg's Avatar

    They look like placeholder values

    If these share are for the NIB health Insurance company out of Newcastle I would suggest you check what the cost base of the shares is, it is unlikely to be 0.

  4. 4 Posted by bradfergu on 18 Jul, 2019 10:25 AM

    bradfergu's Avatar

    Thanks again dwg

    They are NIB shares. I was a member of NIB prior to them going public. Based on my membership I was "gifted" shares prior to the offering. Therefore my outlay at the time was $0. I treated them in MS Money as a $0 outlay which was fine, and I therefore was exposed to CG above that.

    From what I can see in Moneydance, it wont let enter me $0 a share (can understand that in a way) but will allow me to enter $0 the whole transaction. It then seems to generate a random value for the individual share price that is not used in ongoing calculations. Not intuitive in my thinking, but if that is the limitation, I can work with it.

    What I want to understand is, does MD actually allow a $0 value for shares? As I read posts and their online support, it seemingly does .

    I am just not sure if I am reading it all incorrectly, or doing something incorrectly.

    Appreciate any advice you can give to better my understanding.

    Thanks again & Rgds Brad

  5. 5 Posted by dwg on 18 Jul, 2019 09:59 PM

    dwg's Avatar

    Moneydance requires a placeholder value in the data for whatever reason, I have no problem with that, personally I wish it did not show this so called "value" as it is meaningless and not used anywhere, there have been some occasions when the number winds up in the price history but you just delete it from there.

    In effect Moneydance does allow a zero value, it is just not neat about showing it.

    As far as the cost basis of your shares the ATO deemed that the cost base of these shares was 85 cents each:

    https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Capital-gains-tax/In-detail/Events-affecting-shareholders/Specific-events---previous-years/NIB-holdings-limited-(nib)---2011-return-of-capital-(capital-return)/?page=2

    The capital return in 2011 reduced this cost base, if the cost base had been zero a Return of Capital event would have immediately triggered a capital gain event for your taxes in that year.

  6. 6 Posted by bradfergu on 18 Jul, 2019 10:41 PM

    bradfergu's Avatar

    Thanks dwg for clarifying how Moneydance has placeholders and its treatment of $0. Yes it works, but as you say, not the neatest solution.

    Yes you are correct and the easiest way for my particular example, is just put in the ATO deemed cost base. I didn't at the time when i first entered into MS Money (just used the $0) and as I still hold them, I hadn't got around to researching what it was.

    I just go caught up on, when entering the old MS data, the way that Moneydance was treating $0 values.

    Thanks again.

  7. 7 Posted by dwg on 18 Jul, 2019 10:48 PM

    dwg's Avatar

    Probably the easiest way in Moneydance to do this is to enter the buy using the ATO value then using the initial value on the account info screen to adjust the cash value of the investment account back to zero.

    Unfortunately Moneydance does not really handle Returns of Capital so it is not possible in the software to neatly handle these events when you have purchased multiple lots as you do with things like Dividend reinvestment.

  8. 8 Posted by bradfergu on 18 Jul, 2019 11:22 PM

    bradfergu's Avatar

    Thanks and agree, and that's likely how I will move forward now.

    Cheers.

  9. 9 Posted by bradfergu on 19 Jul, 2019 12:26 AM

    bradfergu's Avatar

    Hi dwg,

    One more thing, did you have any thoughts on the 3rd screenshot with the dropdown of /AUD, AUD/ ?
    Thks

  10. 10 Posted by dwg on 19 Jul, 2019 04:09 AM

    dwg's Avatar

    I've seen it but all it seems to do is swap the value between "as is" and the inverted value, not something I have ever used. I've never seen it referred to in any of the available material.

  11. 11 Posted by bradfergu on 19 Jul, 2019 04:57 AM

    bradfergu's Avatar

    Thanks dwg, yes, agree that's what it did for me but I could not find any notes either, nor did an immediate application come to mind. I suppose as I get use to MD, something might come apparent.

  12. System closed this discussion on 18 Oct, 2019 05:00 AM.

Comments are currently closed for this discussion. You can start a new one.

Keyboard shortcuts

Generic

? Show this help
ESC Blurs the current field

Comment Form

r Focus the comment reply box
^ + ↩ Submit the comment

You can use Command ⌘ instead of Control ^ on Mac