Quoteloader Missing Securities

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retail

15 Aug, 2021 07:23 PM

I'm using Quoteloader to obtain security prices. However, there are several securities that are not coming up in Quoteloader. They have names and valid ticker symbols. I can obtain the data via Yahoo manually (on Yahoo's website), but when I open Quoteloader, these securities are not listed and no data is obtained. I see no setting that should be excluding these securities, nor do I see any option to manually add a new security to quoteloader.

In some instances, the missing security is just a regular security with no unique features I can see.

In some instances, I have two securities with the same Ticker symbol (see https://infinitekind.tenderapp.com/discussions/problems/71783-bug-new-securities-not-matching-to-existing for an explanation of why this is necessary). Quoteloader only shows one of the two securities, but does not list the second security with the same ticker

Any way to force Quoteloader to load securities it is not currently showing?

  1. 1 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 15 Aug, 2021 07:36 PM

    Stuart Beesley - JUST A FELLOW USER and Toolbox ‘guy’'s Avatar

    On your first point can you send Screenshots of the tools/securities edit screen of a security that does not work in QL along with SSs of the QL setup screen?

  2. 2 Posted by retail on 15 Aug, 2021 07:55 PM

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    Attached:
    - TPINX (which works)
    - TWMIX (which does not work)
    - QL setup screen

  3. 3 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 15 Aug, 2021 08:21 PM

    Stuart Beesley - JUST A FELLOW USER and Toolbox ‘guy’'s Avatar

    Does TWMIX have any share balance/holdings in MD? If not, tick the ‘include zero accounts’. Any good?

  4. 4 Posted by retail on 20 Aug, 2021 01:25 PM

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    On the first point - 'include zero accounts' did the trick, thanks.

    On the second point, multiple securities with the same ticker, how do I get QuoteLoader to include both securities?

  5. 5 Posted by Mike Bray on 21 Aug, 2021 07:23 AM

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    QL doesn't include multiple securities with the same ticker.  This is
    not how Moneydance works, you should only have one security and include
    it in multiple accounts. QL then loads the  price for the security and
    this is reflected in all accounts with that security.

  6. 6 Posted by retail on 21 Aug, 2021 08:38 PM

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    The other post I linked to at the top of this thread explains why multiple securities with the same ticker is necessary. Has to do with how brokerages handle the same security offered in a 401(k) vs. an individual account.

  7. 7 Posted by retail on 21 Aug, 2021 08:54 PM

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    If I have to choose, I'd rather QL retrieve the ticker tied with the regular (non-employer) accounts. Unfortunately, it is currently retrieving the 401(k) version of the security. I've tried re-naming the security to something farther down the list (alphabetically), but QL continues to retrieve the 401(k) version. I've uninstalled QL, restated MD, reinstalled QL, but hasn't helped.

    Given two different MD securities both the the same ticker, how do I force QL to pick one over the other?

  8. 8 Posted by dwg on 21 Aug, 2021 09:44 PM

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    QL updates the first ticker it finds, so change the ticker.

  9. 9 Posted by Mike Bray on 22 Aug, 2021 07:27 AM

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    I know about the issue with multiple securities with the same ticker and
    the reasons why.  What I am considering doing is adding the CUSIP id to
    the ticker in QL, eg. XXX.ddd and only doing one get quote for XXX and
    then updating all instances of XXX.  This is not a simple change and, in
    my mind goes against the design of MD.  As dwg pointed out, once I have
    an entry for a ticker I do not acccept any more.  If I make the change I
    am suggesting then each duplicate ticker will need to have a different
    CUSIP id.

    Another approach is to just update all entries with the same ticker,
    this is a bigger change and with all changes there is the danger of
    breaking some working code.
    Mike

  10. 10 Posted by retail on 22 Aug, 2021 08:18 PM

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    Mike,

    I appreciate the investment you've made into this extension. I would truly value a solution to this problem - preferably a fix for MD that allows me to use one security for both individual and employer accounts or barring that, an update to QL so that it will recognize two securities with the same ticker. Either would make a big difference.

    Having said that, I value stability more, and one of the things I appreciate most about MD and its related extensions is the stability. It would be great if you're able to offer a solution to this problem, but not at the cost of breaking the code. My thoughts for your consideration. Thanks.

  11. 11 Posted by dwg on 22 Aug, 2021 08:48 PM

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    In my mind your investment house has done the wrong thing here in order to suit their own purposes, whatever that may be.

    Within a market a ticker is supposed to be unique to one security and one security only, the CUSPID is just unique to a security full stop. The "extra" CUSPID that Fidelity has assigned is not even a valid one, so in my thinking they have done the wrong thing by not following the rules.

    If you want you can try using the Quotes and Exchange rates extension, with Yahoo as the source, I suspect this may give you what you want as the original author of this extension, if my memory serves, just iterates through each ticker it finds.

  12. 12 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 23 Aug, 2021 04:27 AM

    Stuart Beesley - JUST A FELLOW USER and Toolbox ‘guy’'s Avatar

    @dwg - I do agree. The investment house is using a 'bad' and invalid cusip on his 401k accounts which is the main root cause. However, MD has a flaw in that it's design doesn't let the user properly cope with this situation and forces a new Security to be created just so it can store a different CUSIP. Why MD doesn't just use the Ticker number I'm not sure (or display/edit the CUSIP on the Tools>Security screen). In addition, MD shouldn't really let you create duplicate Securities for the same Ticker. However, none of this is the User's fault. Mike's suggestion for QL would be a neat 'fix' for this issue regarding the price updates where duplicate tickers exist.

  13. 13 Posted by dwg on 23 Aug, 2021 04:55 AM

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    @Stuart, The only thing I can think of that Moneydance is using the CUSPID as a validation check on downloaded transactions to ensure they are going to the right account/security.

  14. 14 Posted by Mike Bray on 23 Aug, 2021 12:21 PM

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    What I have decided is that the user can put in a ticker with an
    extension to it.  It doesn't matter what this extension is but it allows
    QL to recognise matching tickers.  For example AAPL#1, AAPL#2, AAPL#3. 
    These will show on the QL page.  At the moment they will not get a price
    but the change I am considering is to take the first entry with an
    extension, strip the extension off, get the price, update all entries
    with the same ticker.  I will disable, but show the lines with
    extensions, except the first.

    In my example QL will have

    AAPL#1, you can choose the source and save the price from this line
    AAPL#2, this line will be disabled, the price will be updated with the
    one above.
    AAPL#3,this line will be disabled, the price will be updated with the
    one above.
    Any thoughts? What character for the extension identifier. It should be
    one that can not appear in a ticker.
    Mike

  15. 15 Posted by retail on 23 Aug, 2021 12:37 PM

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    Mike, I can see how this would work - would there be any ramifications elsewhere in MD as a result of the extension to the ticker - some other part of the program that wouldn't know how to deal with it?

  16. 16 Posted by Mike Bray on 23 Aug, 2021 02:06 PM

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    As far as I am aware no other part of the program uses the Ticker.  The
    Q&ER extension does but you would not run it with QL.

  17. 17 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 23 Aug, 2021 02:38 PM

    Stuart Beesley - JUST A FELLOW USER and Toolbox ‘guy’'s Avatar

    My 'hunt' agrees with this. It's just a reference field.. The good thing is that Mike's approach means that nothing in MD is being detrimentally changed.

    I like the use of the '#' character.

    My only question is which one 'wins' and becomes the one where you set the QL options (and thus the others are 'disabled')?

    In this logic you've laid out above, does QL actually check for the CUSIP at all, or just for tickers with the #xxxxx added?

  18. 18 Posted by Mike Bray on 24 Aug, 2021 04:53 AM

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    The one that wins is the first I come across, the CUSIP is not used at all.

  19. 19 Posted by Mike Bray on 24 Aug, 2021 07:45 AM

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    I have given this some more thought and think the user needs to create
    one security for the ticker without the extension, this is the one I
    will do the quote on.   Any other security with the same ticker needs to
    have an extension.  Lines with an extension will have the source
    disabled but the check box for saving a line enabled.  They will be
    updated with the price from the quotge.

  20. 20 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 24 Aug, 2021 09:06 AM

    Stuart Beesley - JUST A FELLOW USER and Toolbox ‘guy’'s Avatar

    I see an issue with this. At the moment (taking this thread as the example). The user wants 1 security. Because of the Investment house's bad data, MD is forcing the user to have two securities. Both have a cusip. I think your QL suggestion will make them hold three securities? One with a normal ticker and no cusip, and two more, for each cusip and with #something on the end...

  21. 21 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 24 Aug, 2021 09:09 AM

    Stuart Beesley - JUST A FELLOW USER and Toolbox ‘guy’'s Avatar

    ...or I suppose the user chooses which one is their 'master' and leaves the ticker as normal (even though it has a cusip) and only sets the second Security to have the extra #xxxx on the ticker.... If this is what you mean, then yes that could work..

  22. 22 Posted by dwg on 24 Aug, 2021 09:16 AM

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    I'm reading Mike's proposal a little differently.

    I take it as meaning you will need to have one security with the normal ticker- call this the primary, and any other instance of the same security will need to have an # extension, call these secondary instances, So you have 1 primary in all cases but you can have"x" secondary instances. I see the CUSIP being not part of this solution.

  23. 23 Posted by derekkent23 on 24 Aug, 2021 10:58 AM

    derekkent23's Avatar

    This is my take on Mikes current thinking for a future build, confirmed by Mike.

    Normally in Moneydance you should not use the same Ticker Symbol in more than one Security. Quote Loader will only list one of the Duplicate Securities and hence only one will be updated. Some Financial Institutions in there downloads when the same Security exists in more than one Account indicate to which account the data should be routed by adding an extra identifier in addition to the Ticker Symbol. These identifiers are not normally visible to the user and can’t be found for example in the Security History window for a Security under TOOLS – SECURITIES. This creates in Quote Loader terms a Duplicate Security. In these cases, the user must manually add an extension to the Duplicate Security Ticker Symbol using the # symbol. Example, there are three securities all using the Ticker AAPL. Under TOOLS - SECURITIES edit two duplicate to add an extension to the Ticker Symbol. This gives AAPL#1 and AAPL#2 so each has a uniquely identified plus the unedited Security with the Ticker AAPL. In Quote Loader all three Securities will be listed but only the one without the extension will be enabled to set a source and retrieve data. However, on Save Selected Values all ticked data lines will be entered into their respective Security History windows, thus solving the duplicate problem.

  24. 24 Posted by Mike Bray on 24 Aug, 2021 11:50 AM

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    dwg and Derek are correct, CUSIP id is not relevant.  You do not need an
    extra account.

  25. 25 Posted by retail on 24 Aug, 2021 08:23 PM

    retail's Avatar

    My appreciation to Mike, Stuart and others for looking into this. Clearly having only one security would be the best outcome, but I can easily make Mike's proposal work and it would address the issue well. Based on my limited experience with MD, I don't see a deal-breaker here. Again, many thanks.

  26. 26 Posted by Mike Bray on 25 Aug, 2021 11:41 AM

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    I have just uploaded a new version of Quote Loader to https://bitbucket.org/mikerb/moneydance-2019/downloads/. It is called securityquoteloader3042.mxt. To install download it and rename to securityquoteload.mxt. Use Manage Extensions/Add from file to install.

    This version will accept tickers in the form ttt#eee where ttt is the ticker on the exchange and eee is any set of characters. ttt#eee must be unique. All other parameters are the same. If you do not add this security to an account and buy some shares then you must click on 'Include zero accounts'.

    You will not be able to update any fields on the lines with these tickers. You must have a security with the ticker ttt.

    When prices are retrieved all lines with a source and a ticker without the #eee will be retrieved, Quote Loader will then go through the list and try to update any line with a ticker of the format ttt#eee. It will update the line with data from the line with the ticker ttt.

    Please put any issues or questions here.

  27. 27 Posted by retail on 26 Aug, 2021 12:35 AM

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    @Mike - I downloaded the extension as listed above and gave it a whirl. The first time I ran it after updating the ticker symbols it hung immediately after pressing "Get Prices." The New Price column was all yellow.

    Since I had not restarted MD after updating the extension, I closed MD and restarted it and tried again, this time it worked. It updated all prices, skipping the TTTTT#002 versions, and then filled in those prices at the end. Save Selected Values then saved the updated prices back to the security as expected.

    So it seems to work as intended, thank you. I'll let you know if any other anomalies show up, in the meantime, thanks again for your help on this. Much appreciated.

  28. 28 Posted by derekkent23 on 26 Aug, 2021 07:24 AM

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    Hi retail

    You always have to restart Moneydance after a QL install, that's normal.
    There have been some small issues found, but nothing to worry about. I am sure Mike will fix them

  29. 29 Posted by derekkent23 on 30 Aug, 2021 07:38 AM

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    I am not support staff, just a user.
    Hi retail

    Just a heads up.

    Sean has signed and released Quote Loader build 3042 under EXTENSIONS – MANAGE EXTENSION.

    This release replaces the beta builds of 3042 fixing some bugs.

    You may wish to uninstall Quote Loader and reinstall.

    Hope this helps.

  30. System closed this discussion on 29 Nov, 2021 07:40 AM.

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