Please make "CASH BALANCE" an OPTION to REMOVE

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Tim

28 Jan, 2020 09:17 PM

After (looks at clock) 6 hours, I am soooo frustrated simply trying to get our Accounts transferred into MD .. For the Life of me I can't get an accurate accounting of Shares owned & portfolio accuracy. The figures are soooo off ... I really wish there was an much more user-friendly method .. e.g., Click on IMPORT from ONLINE Financial Site, ask me how I want to resolve starting balances, etc. I do NOT have a CASH BALANCE in ANY of our accounts - however MD insists there IS one. Why? I own a 401k that no longer receives funds (I'm retired). We have another 401K that receives direct funding into the Mutual Fund(s) - not a CASH repository. We have 7 various accounts to transition to MD and my head is spinning thinking how long this might take.

So how about making CASH as an OPTION? maybe THAT would address our issues with this. (apparently many have same issue)

Starting to question my sanity of purchasing this .. frustrated .. thanks for listening.

  1. 1 Posted by dwg on 01 Feb, 2020 08:14 PM

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    I'm fellow user.

    From a Moneydance perspective to own a investment means you have had to purchase that investment and to purchase an Investment you had to use Money, and by default the Money comes from the investment accounts cash balance.

    There is a recognition that you may start using Moneydance long after you accounts were opened so do not have the cash transactions that would have occurred, to allow for this on the Account Information page there is provision to enter an Initial Balance which can be used to cover the cash amount.

  2. 2 Posted by Tim on 02 Feb, 2020 03:22 PM

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    I totally get the "money must come from some place" issue. However, IMHO, the requirement to establish a CASH Balance really really complicates things.

    OK, for example - I set up my 401K Investment. After establishing a 'starting date' by moving my current balances of price/shares into MD (from QUICKEN), I in fact was able to ZERO out the CASH balance by entering my (positive) INITIAL BALANCE as the (negative) CASH BALANCE. That was fine initially. Now, every time I BUY additional shares as part of my 401k (twice per month), my CASH BALANCE Becomes NEGATIVE & I have to go back and ADD that value to my INITIAL BALANCE to get it NEGATIVE again ... NOTE: I do NOT have a CASH account in that Investment - it comes out of my Paycheck. Yes, I could just IGNORE this negative CASH balance, however, it screws up my NET WORTH and Current INVESTMENT VALUE. (As Kevin here pointed me to - there is a method to set up that PAY CHECK distribution process, but I have yet to go thru that.)

    Anyway, this ALL could be resolved if I/we had the OPTION to just not establish a CASH fund for EVERY Investment. Just let us download current updates from the Investment company & share prices. (A Search for "CASH BALANCE" reveals that THIS is a significant issue for many users, not just me.)

    I'll continue to mush thru this, but honestly, this shouldn't be this hard vs QUICKEN. I *REALLY* like most of MD's features --- just not THIS particular idiosyncrasy.)

    Thanks for all your INPUT - it is much appreciated.

  3. 3 Posted by -Kevin N. on 02 Feb, 2020 05:06 PM

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    Hi naughty_pines,

    I think part of the problem is that you have to un-learn some of the damage that Quicken has instilled in it's users.

    The damage I speak of is from what I've read on these forums...
    1) The apparent ability to pull money out of nowhere.
    2) The 'Balance Adjustment' - an affront to the senses of ever using a PFM program.

    I think you'll realize that once you've set up your paycheck deductions and created the transfer to your 401(k) account, you'll see that doing so represents 'real world' activities. Once you've created a Reminder to perform the action, it will become a no-brainer.

    -Kevin N. (not a member of MD support)

  4. 4 Posted by dwg on 02 Feb, 2020 08:13 PM

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    Moneydance forces the application of sound accounting principles to personal finances, the accounting principles used go back to about the 1300's. You need to account for every cent.

    For retirement accounts, you earnt the money that goes into that account, it was part of your salary package. Your salary is not just the amount that goes into you bank account, in a proper accounting based system you work with the gross amount of salary and have entries for the deductions, whether they be tax, health payments, contribution to retirement accounts etc, a Kevin has said you generally do that through a reminder transaction.

    The idea of putting Money into an account that comes out of thin air is a foreign concept in Moneydance as is buying investments with no money involved.

  5. 5 Posted by dcm on 13 Feb, 2020 07:35 PM

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    I've just pulled twenty-five years of Q into MD and ran into many situations where I did not end up with a correct balance. I eliminated a lot of accounts to down-size and streamline MD and that just throws things out of whack "because the money has to come from somewhere" but can't if the account is now gone. So, you have to learn to "adjust". I am using a cutoff of 12/31/19 and retaining Q data untouched since that date. In MD, I am importing ALL portfolio transactions but limiting all other accounts to 2019 activity. If a balance is off, after posting all current activity and reconciling all accounts, I make a correcting entry on 12/31/18 to bring the balance to what it should be. I also have two fake accounts, No Category and NoCategory (Assets). I use the first to post the other side of my adjusting entry and the second to zero out the first. You may even have to adjust your adjustments for a while as you clean up other accounts. Seven weeks into 2020 and I am doing less and less adjusting all the time.

  6. 6 Posted by dcm on 13 Feb, 2020 07:47 PM

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    My initial transfers took days, not hours. A dozen or more bank accounts eliminated and no longer used over the twenty-five years means your current assets came from no where! During my working career, I was in charge of transferring accounting systems for three nonprofits. The new systems were always way more sophisticated and transfers took MONTHS to get things running smoothly. Adjustments were always needed. If you document your adjustments so you can keep track of what you've done, it's a perfectly legitimate thing to do. Make sure you retain the cost basis of any investments.

    Transfers of financial data are never easy (unless you have few accounts and few transactions) and rarely run smoothly.

  7. 7 Posted by dwg on 13 Feb, 2020 08:01 PM

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    Moneydance makes one concession with sourcing money.

    It is realised that you do not always start everything from day 1. I have an Investment that is still current that goes back to 1982. I have no bank accounts or any other accounts that go back that far nor do I wish too, mine go back about 20 odd years in the software at most but many started before then.

    To allow for this in the Account Info panel there is the provision of entering a starting (Initial) balance. For the Investment account I entered an amount that covered the early purchases, in other accounts the balance just before I started recording the transactions in the software. Thus I did not need to use any adjustment entries.

  8. 8 Posted by Tim on 14 Feb, 2020 03:18 PM

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    DWG, thank you for the detailed response. I am slowly getting things migrated and managed.

  9. System closed this discussion on 15 May, 2020 03:20 PM.

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