tag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:/discussions/budgeting/2107-tracking-retirement-account-contributions-in-budgetInfinite Kind: Discussion 2019-11-26T21:30:22Ztag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/473818582019-07-05T16:45:09Z2019-08-26T18:03:22ZTracking retirement account contributions in budget?<div><p>Any input or suggestion from Infinite Kind or other users on this topic?</p></div>JRtag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/473818582019-07-09T17:15:18Z2019-07-09T17:15:18ZTracking retirement account contributions in budget?<div><p>I use an Income "Tax Deferred (IRA, I also have a tax paid for RIRA and SS for social security, etc.) Savings" category to record/send contributions and distributions. The investment account transactions where I hold the IRA's then match statements and show correct value/s in MD. The category just does the double-entry balancing and things work pretty well.</p></div>avp2tag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/473818582019-07-09T20:00:20Z2019-08-26T18:03:22ZTracking retirement account contributions in budget?<div><p>Thank you for the reply, avp2!</p>
<p>Could you explain how using a category instead of an account for retirement transactions helps? Are you saying that you label your contributions (from your checking account, say) as going into an income category called "Tax Deferred Savings", and then label the transactions incoming to your retirement account as coming from that same category? Instead of transferring directly from one account to another, you create an income category to pass the transactions through? If so, wouldn't the net in this category be zero?</p>
<p>As far as the budgeting goes, it actually works fine for me just moving money from one account to another UNTIL I purchase funds or stocks with the cash in the retirement account. This purchase seems to be treated as money leaving the account, cancelling my contributions in the yearly budget.</p></div>JRtag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/473818582019-07-09T22:06:42Z2019-07-09T22:06:42ZTracking retirement account contributions in budget?<div><p>Don’t know if it will work/help with your budgeting needs. That is why I posted “this is what I do”.</p>
<p>I think MD’s budget functions do not work/show anything but cash amounts. It may be some long while before MD is able to show investment or asset valuation in budget functions.</p>
<p>I use MD's budget bars to show how I am doing for IRA savings (minimum) distributions. A distribution category does work for that and, I have found by experience, provides more flexibility in balancing/handling investment account eccentricity (or differences from bank/cash accounts).</p>
<p>What typically happens for a distribution from one of my investment accounts is, after a sell, the cash transfer is directed to the distribution category and the cash arrival in my bank checking is then directed to a savings category (less taxes if any which would go to my tax paid category). When I had contributions (retired now), I would direct those to my savings category/s from within the investment account. Typically, only net income from pay would be deposited in my receiving bank account so that there was no need to balance taxes or contributions for that bank account transaction - the net would go to a taxable income category. All was balanced regarding double entry and budget viewable via cash amounts.</p>
<p>I realize this may be "clear as mud", until you try it for awhile, but hope it helps.</p>
<p>Al Pawlowski<br>
Los Osos, CA USA</p></div>avp2tag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/473818582019-07-09T22:49:56Z2019-07-09T22:49:56ZTracking retirement account contributions in budget?<div><p>I'm a fellow user.</p>
<p>In the early part of your original post there is something bothering me. You state "The budget tracks the contribution accurately UNTIL I use the transferred cash to purchase into the mutual fund." The implication is that transferred funds are showing in your budget. However Moneydance has implemented an Expence budget system and transfers are never considerd to be an expense so should not be seen in the budget.</p>
<p>The budget should only show categorised expenses. To track a transfer in a budget i.e. you are looking to do cash flow budgeting, you need to record the transfer as two separate transactions, using once account and one category in both, one you can report on the other just to satisfy double entry rules.</p>
<p>For example, one method could be to enter the transaction in the bank account to obtain the funds but use a category that you budget for the destination. This draws the funds and satisfies the budget side. In the investment account you could use a Misinc to record the money coming in but drawing on another category created for the funds. Then do your buy transaction as normal, you do not use this category for anything else. Don't use the same category for both transactions as they will cancel each other out.</p></div>dwgtag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/473818582019-07-09T23:28:57Z2019-08-26T18:03:22ZTracking retirement account contributions in budget?<div><p>Thanks for weighing in, dwg!</p>
<p>What you state is correct: transferred funds are showing in my budget. This confused me too, since in searching this forum I found several posts of people complaining they can't track mortgage payments in their budget. I'm not sure what they're doing differently, but this has always worked as expected for me. I am using the 'mixed interval' budget format, and it accurately tracks transfers between accounts. My mortgage is set up as a Loan account and my IRA is set up as an Investment account. Transfers from my checking account into either of these are tracked perfectly in the budget, and I've been doing it this way for years.</p>
<p>Where it gets weird for me is that purchases of stock or mutual funds within an investment account are treated as transfers out of that account for the purposes of budgeting, so if I record the buys then my budget does not show the contributions. For now I just leave it in cash (in MoneyDance) until the end of the year, to confirm I am on track with my budget, then I download all the buys for the year and sync up with Vanguard.</p>
<p>Check out the 'mixed interval' budget format and see if it behaves the same for you. It should track transfers just like tracking any other category.</p></div>JRtag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/473818582019-07-09T23:58:16Z2019-07-09T23:58:16ZTracking retirement account contributions in budget?<div><p>I recall from some older posts that the mixed interval budget used to allow transfers to be in the budget but that this was changed sometime in the 2017 stream, there were complaints about this change in behavior. I wonder if what you are seeing is somehow tied back to an older version of Moneydance and how it worked and it is still partially working as it used to.</p>
<p>The change you are seeing with purchasing securities doesn't really worry me in itself. I see this as replacing one asset with another i.e. Cash in a brokerage account -> owning units or shares in a fund/stock so it would not be in an expense budget. I suspect this behavior is being seen because of the earlier transfer appearing in the budget.</p>
<p>Yes there is odd behavior occurring but I tend to think that it all relates back to the transfer appearing in the budget and it goes downhill from there. As to how and why I have no idea. Unless someone else can chime in I suspect that this will be one for Sean (the developer) to work out</p></div>dwgtag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/473818582019-08-26T16:06:17Z2019-08-26T18:03:23ZTracking retirement account contributions in budget?<div><p>Hi Sean - I believe this is a bug in the budgeting ability of MD.</p>
<p>Account to account transfers are tracked accurately in the budget, but I believe purchases of stocks/assets held within an account should not affect the budget, and they currently do.</p>
<p>Feel free to contact me in a private discussion if you would like screen shots or more details.</p>
<p>JR</p></div>JRtag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/473818582019-08-27T09:05:43Z2019-08-27T09:05:43ZTracking retirement account contributions in budget?<div><p>Hi JR,</p>
<p>Ah yes, I missed the fact that stock purchases and sales would be reflected in a budget that referenced the investment account. I also agree that they shouldn't be included since they are just moving value between the investment account's cash value and the security.</p>
<p>I also do plan to add the ability to budget for transfers to or from other account types (not just categories) in the new style budget.</p>
<p>Thanks,<br>
Sean</p>
<p>--<br>
Sean Reilly<br>
Developer, The Infinite Kind<br>
<a href="https://infinitekind.com">https://infinitekind.com</a></p></div>Sean Reillytag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/473818582019-08-27T15:46:29Z2019-08-27T15:46:29ZTracking retirement account contributions in budget?<div><p>Thank you Sean! Very glad to hear we are thinking the same.</p>
<p>Also glad to hear of your plans for the new style budget. I would only ask that you not remove the older mixed interval budget style, since that is the method I am used to and prefer.</p></div>JRtag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/473818582019-08-27T21:20:55Z2019-08-27T21:20:55ZTracking retirement account contributions in budget?<div><p>Hi JR,</p>
<p>No worries - the mixed-interval budget style definitely won't be going away.</p>
<p>Thanks,<br>
Sean</p></div>Sean Reilly