tag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:/discussions/budgeting/474-credit-card-accountsInfinite Kind: Discussion 2016-11-03T09:10:20Ztag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/389380102016-01-16T21:00:25Z2016-01-20T12:58:32ZCredit Card Accounts<div><p>I'm currently tracking 7 credit card accounts. Each one of those
accounts is being paid out of my checking account. When I pay my
credit card bills I categorize each payment to be applied to the
appropriate credit card account. So when I set up my budget, A)
They aren't categorized under any expense categories, and B) The
Credit Card Accounts aren't listed in the budget categories list.
So, how then can I budget my credit card bills? (See attached
screenshot)</p></div>Dave S.tag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/389380102016-01-16T21:17:42Z2016-01-20T12:58:32ZCredit Card Accounts<div><p>Forgot attachment.</p></div>Dave S.tag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/389380102016-01-16T21:54:57Z2016-01-20T12:58:32ZCredit Card Accounts<div><p>Hello,</p>
<p>Other accounts do not appear in your budget because when you do
something like pay a credit card bill, you are not actually paying
an expense in terms of expense categories, but are transferring
money from one account to another. This does not affect your net
worth any more than transferring between your checking and savings
account would. Moneydance budgets are for budgeting your actual
spending, which in this case are the transactions created when you
purchase items with your credit cards. If you were to budget for
both of these, you could essentially be counting the same purchases
twice: once for the actual purchases, and then again when you paid
your credit card bills.</p>
<p>Ethan<br>
Moneydance Support</p></div>Ethantag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/389380102016-01-17T05:19:01Z2016-01-20T12:58:31ZCredit Card Accounts<div><p>Thanks Ethan,</p>
<p>Hypothetical scenario: I go to Macy's. I purchase $500 worth of
clothes on my Discover card. I get my Discover statement in the
mail. I write a check for $100, lick a stamp and send payment to
Discover. I go to my computer to record the transactions in
Moneydance. First, I record the $500 purchase into my Discover
account register and assign it to the "Personal:Clothing" category.
I then record the $100 check in my checking account register being
applied to my Discover account (category ). The Discover account
register shows the Macy's transaction and the payment from checking
(as seen from the previously attached screenshot). As I see it, the
credit card bill comes out of my checking account and is given to a
creditor, which to me is an expense (actual spending). An expense I
need to budget for. This bill is being paid no differently than say
my natural gas bill. The process is the same. The difference is the
gas company isn't a creditor and therefore doesn't carry any
balance of debt in which I need to track. In theory, I AM
transferring from one account to another. Only I don't own the
money after the "transfer" to a credit account. This is much
different then say transferring from checking to savings where
after the transfer, I still own the money. And, yes it would affect
my net worth. Now I pay $100 to each of seven credit card companies
of which I track in Moneydance. If there is no way to assign these
transactions as expenses, how then can I budget them? I am
essentially missing $700 every month from my budget for my credit
card expenses.</p>
<p>I understand that you can't budget an account. I am budgeting my
expense spending. And my credit card bills are an expense and they
are actual spending. There should be a way to assign a credit
payment from a checking account to both a "transfer" and an expense
category so that the expense can be budgeted.</p>
<p>I sincerely thank you again for your help.</p></div>Dave S.tag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/389380102016-01-17T17:43:35Z2016-01-20T12:58:31ZCredit Card Accounts<div><p>Macy's is what you spend, the credit cards are what you pay. If
you put both on your budget, you are double expensing. My
suggestion is to create two budgets one for spending and one for
payments.</p>
<p>The new budget system is good for spending. For your payments I
suggest using the mixed interval budgeting. This will allow you to
put in both your salary and all your accounts. To do this go to
tools > budget manager. This brings up the edit budget window.
Click new. In the new budget box name the budget the in the period
menu select mixed interval. Click create.</p>
<p>Back in the edit budget window, select edit. The budget will
open empty. There is a + button at the bottom. Use this to add an
account. The account will default to the fist category. Click on
the category field to edit to the proper account. Then edit the
amount and date field. repeat for each account you wish to
budget.</p>
<p>Tom Freeman<br>
Infinite Kind Support</p></div>Tom Freemantag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/389380102016-01-18T17:51:39Z2016-01-20T12:58:31ZCredit Card Accounts<div><p>I have this same issue - let's say the credit card is NOT for
new spending but has an old balance that pre-dates setting up money
dance - how can we show the $ we are paying to pay off the credit
card debt as expense? Most "personal finance" programs deal with
this someway. OH, I guess you could set up the credit card as a
LOAN, and then pay it off?? will then it show as an expense for
that loan payment?</p></div>Laura Shepherdtag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/389380102016-01-19T00:58:23Z2016-01-20T12:58:31ZCredit Card Accounts<div><p>Thank you Tom for your input.</p>
<p>First things first. Macy's is what I pay ON CREDIT. This DOES
NOT affect my checking account balance. The payment I make once a
month to Macy's credit department comes from my CASH account and it
does affect my checking account balance. I don't want to budget my
credit spending, I want to budget my cash spending. Also, creating
a mixed interval budget doesn't resolve the issue either. After
many hours of trying different ways to figure this out, I finally
found the solution, or at least I thought! So, here's what I did
(you may need to refer back to post #3). I've decided to
re-categorize my "Discover" credit card payments in my Checking
register from being applied to the account in Moneydance, to
Bills:Credit Card. Under my "Discover" credit card account in
Moneydance, I simply apply my payment as a deposit line entry in
the Discover register and I categorize that payment as Bills:Credit
Card. I can now budget my credit cards! YAY!!! Wait, HOLD THE
PHONE!!! If I have seven credit cards, and I budget $100 for each
of them and I pay $100 to each of them, theoretically I should have
a balanced credit card budget ($700 paid on a $700 budget). But
because my Moneydance budget pulls all expenses (and deposits) from
all accounts (Credit cards, Checking, Savings, etc), my budget
shows $0 of $700. Here, Moneydance is taking the $100 deposit in my
Discover credit card account and applying to my budget which is
actually canceling out my true checking expense. I do not need to
budget my credit card spending! I need to budget my credit card
payments! Here is another hypothetical scenario with this way of
budgeting. I have a $15,000 credit line on my Discover card. I once
again go to Macy's and this time I buy a new king size bed. And
because I want the best, I spend $7.500 on that bed and charge it
to my Discover card. I come home and record the transaction in
Moneydance in my Discover credit card account and assign the
category Home:Furnishings. At the end of the month I write another
check for $100, lick another stamp and send my payment to Discover.
I open Moneydance and I now record that payment in the Discover
Account register as a deposit under the category Bills:Credit card
and I also record a payment in my Checking account register under
the category Bills:Credit card. If I look at my budget, it now
shows I'm over budget by $7,500 because in this scenario, the bed
was an emergency purchase and was budgeted $0 for the category
Home:Furnishings. And, my Bills:Credit card budget still says $0 of
$700. One of a few things has to happen here. 1) The payments on a
credit card account need to be categorized differently. Or, 2) Show
"Payment" as an option under the field in the register and have no
categories available. Or, 3) Have an account specific budget where
only the categories in that account can be budgeted. I did not
actually spend the $7500. If I did I'd be broke (Hypothetically
that is)! The budget thinks that my Macy's purchase on my Discover
card was a cash expense. In fact it wasn't. The $100 payment on
account however, was. The accounts and the categories in those
accounts need be be kept separate! If for some reason I want to
create a budget for my credit card then only the categories used in
that account should be budgeted. The same goes for all other
accounts. My checking account shouldn't be budgeting my credit card
transactions. These transactions aren't true cash expenses. This
really isn't complicated. I just want to budget my liquid, cash,
accounts. More specifically, checking. And, track all my credit
card transactions, and keep them all budgeted as separate
accounts.</p></div>Dave S.tag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/389380102016-01-19T14:49:44Z2016-01-20T12:58:31ZCredit Card Accounts<div><p>Massq2,<br>
thanks for all the detail - any chance you can post a screen print
of how you are handling it ?</p></div>lauratag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/389380102016-01-20T05:33:59Z2016-01-20T12:58:31ZCredit Card Accounts<div><p>Laura,</p>
<p>Here are the screenshots of what's happening. I hope this
helps.</p></div>Dave S.tag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/389380102016-01-20T12:54:43Z2016-01-20T12:58:31ZCredit Card Accounts<div><p>Thank you ! This does allow what I need to happen and that is to
see my<br>
expense on my credit card payments. By booking the extra deposit
entry on<br>
the credit card page, then our cash (income) is overstated. How do
you deal<br>
with this if at all? My initial thought was this:</p>
<ol>
<li>credit card payments from my checking account are recorded
into: Bills:Credit cards</li>
<li>then my deposit into the credit card I labeled as:
Bills:Recognized payment</li>
<li>then on my reports I uncheck the box for #2</li>
<li>Overall on the summary page though, my income is
overstated.</li>
</ol></div>Laura Shepherdtag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/389380102016-01-21T04:50:51Z2016-01-21T04:52:12ZCredit Card Accounts<div><p>There should be a question in the budget manager or a checkbox
selecting whether or not you want to budget all expenses or just
cash accounts. If I could only just budget my cash accounts then
this discussion thread never even happens.<br>
The more I thought about it, the more I realized that ANY purchases
made on ANY credit card is just that...purchases on credit. My
hypothetical bed that I bought...I DIDN'T BUY IT! Discover bought
it! I in turn pay Discover monthly, a revolving amount, until my
card is payed off. And these credit transactions shouldn't be
included in budgeted amounts unless I tell Moneydance to do so.</p>
<p>Infinite Kind Staff, thank you so much for your time and
dedication to the development and maintenance of Moneydance for
Linux. I've tried several different "free" finance programs written
for Linux and I've found that not everything Linux has to be free.
I financially support my Distribution and I'll financially support
any software out there that's worthy of my support. And Moneydance
is definitely worth my support. Of the several different finance
programs out there (free and not free), Moneydance is the closest
to Quicken I've found. I've payed for and used Quicken for more
than 20 years and I'm very happy I no longer rely on MS Windows on
any computer in my house (four of them) and no longer rely on
Quicken to provide my home finance management needs. I'm just a bit
disappointed that I've paid more for Moneydance than I have with
Quicken and it can't get a simple budget to work. Does this mean
that I'm dropping Moneydance and asking for a refund? Not at all!
For the money people pay for Moneydance, we deserve software that
works right.<br>
Please correct the issues that prohibit smooth and easy budgeting
or provide an existing solution to effectively plan my cash
spending.<br>
Again, I sincerely thank you,</p>
<p>-- massq2</p></div>Dave S.tag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/389380102016-01-21T20:43:16Z2016-01-21T20:43:16ZCredit Card Accounts<div><p>In all honesty we have struggled with how to code the budgeting
processes. I will pass on your feedback to the developers.</p>
<p>Tom Freeman<br>
Infinite Kind Support</p></div>Tom Freemantag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/389380102016-04-13T20:15:16Z2016-04-13T20:15:16ZCredit Card Accounts<div><p>Just wanted to chime in and say YES! I am totally in the same
boat and really struggling over whether to continue on with
Moneydance over this very issue. I have used it for 10 years, but
am finding that a budget that accurately represents credit card
usage is vital. I am frustrated when I make a purchase at a store
and then pay the credit card the next month, and Moneydance tells
me I've spent that same amount of money twice. Even worse when I
repay my card in the same month. My monthly budget gets totally
messed up.<br>
And on a related note.....we REALLY need to be able to access our
budgets on our smartphones these days as well. One of the reasons I
want to take the time to make a budget each month is so that I can
access my spending in real-time at the store. I am a loyal
long-time user and really want to be able to keep on using it, just
need these updates. Thanks for your consideration!</p></div>lizingallstag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/389380102016-05-17T04:13:41Z2016-05-17T04:13:42ZCredit Card Accounts<div><p>I too am perplexed at how to manage my budget utilizing credit
cards. I do pay my credit bill in full each month, and would really
like to avoid the cumbersome task of keying the splits to clarify
the spending categories. The data is already loaded into the credit
card register. I buy all groceries and gas on my credit card, so it
is important to reflect the correct categorization in the actuals
reporting so I can assess budget to actual performance.
Suggestions?</p>
<p>Thanks,</p></div>Kimtag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/389380102016-05-17T13:52:07Z2016-05-17T13:52:07ZCredit Card Accounts<div><p>Kim</p>
<p>You should not need to enter any spits when using a credit card
in Moneydance. You should create an account of type credit card.
You should enter or download transactions directly into that credit
card account. When you make a payment to the card you enter a
transfer from your bank account to the credit card. No splits
needed.</p>
<p>The recommended way of budgeting when using credit cards in
Moneydance is to budget for the expense categories that you use on
the credit card. It is not possible to also budget for the monthly
payment to the credit card in Moneydance. Doing so would be double
counting the money. I realize this is not ideal for the needs of
some and I am sorry if it does not meet your needs.</p>
<p>Ben Spencer<br>
Infinite Kind Support</p></div>Ben Spencertag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/389380102016-05-18T03:36:44Z2016-05-18T03:36:44ZCredit Card Accounts<div><p>Hi Ben,<br>
Thank you for the explanation. I have the account set up and have
been<br>
downloading the the credit card transactions from Amex in one case,
my<br>
credit union in the other. Transferring the payment to the account
to<br>
cover the bill in the instance of the credit union, no problem. I
can't<br>
quite see how that will be done for Amex. Presently, I initiate a
direct<br>
ACH payment to Amex from my primary checking account and classify
the<br>
expenditure as credit card payment. The actual recording of the
payment in<br>
either account is noted in a subsequent download. What am I
missing?</p>
<p>Another problem I am seeing is the account balance is wrong
month over<br>
month. I recall reading that one must correct the beginning
balance<br>
periodically. How is the best way to do that?</p>
<p>The other component of this is reviewing monthly expenditures,
comparing<br>
budget to actuals. I suspect I don't have things set up properly.
Can I<br>
also trouble you to advise how to correctly set this up?</p>
<p>Thanks so much,</p>
<p>Kim Hayes<br>
2430 North 1675 East<br>
Layton, Utah 84040<br>
801-599-5519</p></div>Kim Hayestag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/389380102016-05-18T11:38:07Z2016-05-18T11:38:07ZCredit Card Accounts<div><p>You should not categorize the payment to the credit card as the
expense "credit card payment" instead in the category selector on
the payment transaction in your bank account you should select the
actual credit card. It will be up near the top of the list of
categories. This will create a transfer from the bank account to
the credit card account, including the balancing entry on the other
side.</p>
<p>You should not have correct the beginning balance every month
you should only need to set the beginning balance once when you
first download transactions into Moneydance. Assuming you do not
make any errors entering transaction manually, or you do not have
any duplicate you need to merge the balance should be correct.</p>
<p>Ben Spencer<br>
Infinite Kind Support</p></div>Ben Spencertag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/389380102016-05-18T12:47:43Z2016-05-18T12:47:43ZCredit Card Accounts<div><p><em>​OLD Credit card balances:</em> ​ Here's what I
do so that I can track payments that relate to OLD credit<br>
card balances.</p>
<p>It is a 2-step process:<br>
1) on my<br>
​credit card account for my ​ MasterCard<br>
​, ​ I put in the payment as</p>
<pre>
<code>$20.00 zzzzz payment to old debt</code>
</pre>
<p>2) in my checking account, I show $20 to MasterCard<br>
​and select that credit card "master card"</p>
<p>I make sure that when I run reports, I do not select the
category "zzzz<br>
payment to debt" to be included w/in my reports.</p>
<p><em>​Budget reports</em> The budget platform and budget
reporting function has a lot of room to<br>
grow. Maybe look at quickbooks or another system like that and see
how<br>
they handle budgets.<br>
Basically,<br>
​ it should work exactly like the operating/actual #'s.</p>
<p>​</p></div>Laura Shepherdtag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/389380102016-08-04T09:09:50Z2016-08-04T12:50:47ZCredit Card Accounts<div><p>Hello!<br>
How I can check credit card balance throughout this POS terminal?
What's the difference between POS terminal and bank credit
payment?<br>
new-york-pos.com/</p></div>Curtis Hodge