tag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:/discussions/investments/56-how-do-handle-non-residence-tax-on-dividendsInfinite Kind: Discussion 2018-03-17T10:47:16Ztag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/365241152015-04-08T18:16:04Z2015-04-08T18:16:04ZHow do handle Non residence tax on dividends.<div><p>I have looked at the original statements and the NRT (Non
residence Tax) which is tax taken by the country that the income
originates is all handled as part of the dividend payment. Dividend
- NRT = Dividend Payment</p></div>rmerrintag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/365241152015-04-08T21:55:31Z2015-04-08T21:55:31ZHow do handle Non residence tax on dividends.<div><p>In some countries it is called withholding tax.</p>
<p>I can think of two ways of recording it.</p>
<ol>
<li>
<p>Record the gross dividend then do a xfr of the Tax to an
appropriately named category</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>Record the net dividend and for the Tax use a DivXfr transaction
with a category on each side of the transaction i.e one category in
the transfer field and another in the category field</p>
</li>
</ol>
<p>As for which approach to take i think it depends on which you
prefer and even perhaps how the institution presents the data to
you. Some of the data I get tends to lead me to use method 2, as
they just give me the net figures.</p>
<p>Des</p></div>dwgtag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/365241152015-04-09T00:00:18Z2015-04-09T00:00:18ZHow do handle Non residence tax on dividends.<div><p>Why not (3), just record the dividend as a Div with fee. The fee
category is your Tax expense category, and the fee amount is the
tax. Doesn't that work?</p></div>ljbtag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/365241152015-04-09T00:04:04Z2015-04-09T00:04:04ZHow do handle Non residence tax on dividends.<p>I had the idea of using the misc exp and using the income
dividend as the category. Seeing the gross dividend and the NRT is
also on the statement with both being on the same line. Being that
they are all recorded as dividend income and against the same stock
it should work. Any thoughts on this?<br></p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Apr 8, 2015 5:55 PM, dwg
<tender+de00192ddd@tenderapp.com> wrote:<br type=
"attribution">
<blockquote class="quote">
<div>
<table width="100%">
<tr>
<td>
<p>// Please reply above this line<br>
==================================================</p>
<p><b>From</b>: dwg</p>
<div>
<p>In some countries it is called withholding tax.</p>
<p>I can think of two ways of recording it.</p>
<ol>
<li>
<p>Record the gross dividend then do a xfr of the Tax to an
appropriately named category</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>Record the net dividend and for the Tax use a DivXfr transaction
with a category on each side of the transaction i.e one category in
the transfer field and another in the category field</p>
</li>
</ol>
<p>As for which approach to take i think it depends on which you
prefer and even perhaps how the institution presents the data to
you. Some of the data I get tends to lead me to use method 2, as
they just give me the net figures.</p>
<p>Des</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>On Wed, Apr 08 at 06:16 PM, rmerrin wrote:</p>
<blockquote>
<div>
<p>I have looked at the original statements and the NRT (Non
residence Tax) which is tax taken by the country that the income
originates is all handled as part of the dividend payment. Dividend
- NRT = Dividend Payment</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<p>Having trouble reading this? View this discussion online:
<a href=
"http://help.infinitekind.com/discussions/investments/56-how-do-handle-non-residence-tax-on-dividends">
How do handle Non residence tax on dividends.</a>.</p>
<p>To unsubscribe and stop receiving emails from <a href=
"http://help.infinitekind.com">http://help.infinitekind.com</a>,
visit <a href=
"http://help.infinitekind.com/unsubscribe/a3713e77bc88d74c63ba95791975fb7a64a950bd">
this page</a></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>rmerrintag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/365241152015-04-09T00:49:38Z2015-04-09T00:49:38ZHow do handle Non residence tax on dividends.<p>ljb it sounds like it could work but how it shows up on reports
also counts. I am thinking of recording it as a misc exp from a
security. Any thoughts on that?</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Apr 8, 2015 8:00 PM, ljb
<tender+de00192ddd@tenderapp.com> wrote:<br type=
"attribution">
<blockquote class="quote">
<div>
<table width="100%">
<tr>
<td>
<p>// Please reply above this line<br>
==================================================</p>
<p><b>From</b>: ljb</p>
<div>
<p>Why not (3), just record the dividend as a Div with fee. The fee
category is your Tax expense category, and the fee amount is the
tax. Doesn't that work?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>On Wed, Apr 08 at 09:55 PM, dwg wrote:</p>
<blockquote>
<div>
<p>In some countries it is called withholding tax.</p>
<p>I can think of two ways of recording it.</p>
<ol>
<li>
<p>Record the gross dividend then do a xfr of the Tax to an
appropriately named category</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>Record the net dividend and for the Tax use a DivXfr transaction
with a category on each side of the transaction i.e one category in
the transfer field and another in the category field</p>
</li>
</ol>
<p>As for which approach to take i think it depends on which you
prefer and even perhaps how the institution presents the data to
you. Some of the data I get tends to lead me to use method 2, as
they just give me the net figures.</p>
<p>Des</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<p>Having trouble reading this? View this discussion online:
<a href=
"http://help.infinitekind.com/discussions/investments/56-how-do-handle-non-residence-tax-on-dividends">
How do handle Non residence tax on dividends.</a>.</p>
<p>To unsubscribe and stop receiving emails from <a href=
"http://help.infinitekind.com">http://help.infinitekind.com</a>,
visit <a href=
"http://help.infinitekind.com/unsubscribe/a3713e77bc88d74c63ba95791975fb7a64a950bd">
this page</a></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>rmerrintag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/365241152015-04-09T01:46:16Z2015-04-09T01:46:16ZHow do handle Non residence tax on dividends.<div><p>Suppose you have a dividend of 50 (whatever currency) and your
tax is due (withholding-type tax, as dwg said) of 5. You record
this as a dividend paid by the security of 50, income category
"Dividends", with a fee of 5 and let's call the fee category an
expense category "NR Tax". Your account's cash balance increases by
50-5=45. (Or, you could do the same thing with a DivXfr and
transfer the net of 45 right out of your investment account into
another account.)</p>
<p>Reports will show an income of 50 from category "Dividends" and
an expense of 5 to category "NR Tax", with a single transaction.
Because it is a single transaction, right? That's the idea of
withholding: it isn't like you get the dividend first, then you pay
the tax on it.</p>
<p>I don't like MiscExp for this because it doesn't properly
describe what is happening. But yes you could get the same
effect.</p>
<p>As per my above, I don't actually know how this tax works, so I
don't know if my suggesting is appropriate.</p></div>ljbtag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/365241152015-04-09T05:11:51Z2015-04-09T05:11:51ZHow do handle Non residence tax on dividends.<div><p>What and how to record it can also be influenced by how you need
to report the numbers for purposes such as Taxation so it can be
useful to examine the reporting you need to gain an idea on the
best way of recording information.</p>
<p>Des</p></div>dwgtag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/365241152015-04-09T15:41:30Z2015-04-09T15:41:30ZHow do handle Non residence tax on dividends.<p>Actually I get the gross dividend before tax because that is
what I earned. Then the tax is taken out. Now Canada will tax me on
the gross dividend come up with tax payable and then subtract the
tax paid to the USA. Double taxation is disalowed under the
tax treaty.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Apr 9, 2015 1:11 AM, dwg
<tender+de00192ddd@tenderapp.com> wrote:<br type=
"attribution">
<blockquote class="quote">
<div>
<table width="100%">
<tr>
<td>
<p>// Please reply above this line<br>
==================================================</p>
<p><b>From</b>: dwg</p>
<div>
<p>What and how to record it can also be influenced by how you need
to report the numbers for purposes such as Taxation so it can be
useful to examine the reporting you need to gain an idea on the
best way of recording information.</p>
<p>Des</p>
</div>
<div>
<p>On Thu, Apr 09 at 01:46 AM, ljb wrote:</p>
<blockquote>
<div>
<p>Suppose you have a dividend of 50 (whatever currency) and your
tax is due (withholding-type tax, as dwg said) of 5. You record
this as a dividend paid by the security of 50, income category
"Dividends", with a fee of 5 and let's call the fee category an
expense category "NR Tax". Your account's cash balance increases by
50-5=45. (Or, you could do the same thing with a DivXfr and
transfer the net of 45 right out of your investment account into
another account.)</p>
<p>Reports will show an income of 50 from category "Dividends" and
an expense of 5 to category "NR Tax", with a single transaction.
Because it is a single transaction, right? That's the idea of
withholding: it isn't like you get the dividend first, then you pay
the tax on it.</p>
<p>I don't like MiscExp for this because it doesn't properly
describe what is happening. But yes you could get the same
effect.</p>
<p>As per my above, I don't actually know how this tax works, so I
don't know if my suggesting is appropriate.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<p>Having trouble reading this? View this discussion online:
<a href=
"http://help.infinitekind.com/discussions/investments/56-how-do-handle-non-residence-tax-on-dividends">
How do handle Non residence tax on dividends.</a>.</p>
<p>To unsubscribe and stop receiving emails from <a href=
"http://help.infinitekind.com">http://help.infinitekind.com</a>,
visit <a href=
"http://help.infinitekind.com/unsubscribe/a3713e77bc88d74c63ba95791975fb7a64a950bd">
this page</a></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>rmerrintag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/365241152015-04-09T21:26:26Z2015-04-09T21:26:26ZHow do handle Non residence tax on dividends.<div><p>Here in Australia, we get a tax credit for the taxation that is
paid in Australia by the company, so I actually have to record the
dividend I receive plus also I need to report on the Tax Credit
that has already been paid, hence why I use my option 2 to record
this Tax credit, I never have to report on the gross up figure.</p>
<p>So we effectively do not allow double taxation within the
country i.e, the company paying Tax on the profit then the investor
paying Tax again on this profit when it is distributed, so it
really becomes taxed at the individuals marginal rate at most,
rather than being taxed at the corporate 30% rate then the entire
profit again taxed at the investors full rate.</p>
<p>BTW If you are using a mail response to post I would suggest not
including the entire mail train it tends to make the entries long
and repetitive when reading online.</p>
<p>Des</p></div>dwgtag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/365241152015-04-10T00:50:13Z2015-04-10T00:50:13ZHow do handle Non residence tax on dividends.<div><p>dwg The Misc Exo is recorded against the security and recorded
as a expense category Dividend NRT. This works because I don't have
an account for the money and the money belongs to the government
not me. Actually I think the best way to handle this is a split
transaction as that is exactly what it is</p></div>rmerrintag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/365241152015-04-10T01:28:49Z2015-04-10T01:28:49ZHow do handle Non residence tax on dividends.<div><p>Handling it that way works quite well when it is the gross
dividend you have to report on and expensing the dividend to an
appropriate category will also give the correct result there. I
certainly would not use an account for a NRT, I think that should
be a category</p>
<p>Like I said it depends on how you need to report the transaction
that can help determine the best way or ways of handling it, I was
using my own example to highlight a different scenario where
another approach works.</p>
<p>Letting what end result you need help guide you to a good
approach to take is a good way to look at a situation. Of course it
also depends on what version of Moneydance you are using for
example you could not use a split transaction in MD2012 in an
investment account</p></div>dwgtag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/365241152015-04-10T06:59:17Z2015-04-10T06:59:17ZHow do handle Non residence tax on dividends.<div><p>dwg : You say we had split transactions in investment accounts
in MD 2012. why where they eliminated? Split transactions would
male life easier.</p></div>rmerrintag:infinitekind.tenderapp.com,2009-01-14:Comment/365241152015-04-10T09:06:14Z2015-04-10T09:06:14ZHow do handle Non residence tax on dividends.<div><p>I said you could NOT use a split transaction in investment
accounts in MD2012.</p>
<p>MD2015 has support for split transactions when you are using the
bank register. I do not recall if you could use split transactions
in MD2014 and do not have a machine with that version on it at the
moment to look.</p></div>dwg