Vanguard Case Deposit fund (Settlement fund)

TimberWolf's Avatar

TimberWolf

03 Dec, 2022 09:52 PM

In a Vanguard Brokerage Account, I've converted the Settlement fund (VMFXX) to a Vanguard Cash Desposit fund. This fund is FDIC insured and is not an investment asset but does earn interest. I would like to know how to handle this within the Investment account I have that tracks my Vanguard Brokerage Account. Currently the downloaeded Vanguard Account information does bring in all the correct transaction amounts, but I don't know how to create or assign the Cash Deposit fund so it balances and tracks correctly.

I've also mistakenly created a Vanguard Cash Deposit security which I cannot delete to start over. Any suggestions for this?

  1. 1 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 03 Dec, 2022 10:07 PM

    Stuart Beesley (Mr Toolbox)'s Avatar

    I don't completely understand the question, but some pointers:

    You can use txn type XFR to put cash interest into the investment account... Put your interest category in the Transfer field.

    OR, if you want the interest "linked" to a security's performance, then use MiscInc against the security to record the interest in the Category.

    To delete the VG Cash Deposit security, you must remove all txns that refer to it. Use Toolbox extension, Security Tools, Can I delete Security to identify these.. Once they have all gone, then you can remove the security and then delete the security.

  2. 2 Posted by TimberWolf on 04 Dec, 2022 01:50 AM

    TimberWolf's Avatar

    Stuart,
    Thank you for replying.
    I'll try to clarify (please ask for more info if it helps).

    1. Vanguard Settlement funds hold cash that is not being held in a security
    (aka a stock or mutual fund). The original Vanguard Settlement fund I had
    was actually a mutual fund with a ticker of VMFXX.

    I went through the process (at Vanguard) of converting that Settlement fund
    to a Vanguard Cash Deposit that is not a mutual fund or security. It
    generates monthly interest that is reinvested into the Vanguard Cash
    Deposit. I'm thinking of it like a bank account because it's FDIC insured.

    After using Moneydance > Online > Download All Accounts the transactions
    are listed as follows:
    Date Action Description Security Cat
    11/30 Sell MONEY FUND REDEMPTION VMFXX >>> this appears
    correct
    11/30 Div DIVIDEND PAYMENT VMFXX >>> this appears
    correct
    11/30 Misc/Inc INTEREST PAYMENT Vanguard Cash Deposit $
    xx.xx
                     >>> this to the 'security' i may of wrongly created
    11/30 Xfr ***blank*** ***blank*** $
    - xx.xx
                     >>> this is Transfers to: a personal bank account
                         but not the Vanguard Cash Deposit.
                     >>> If I change this to the Van Cash Deposit the Balance
    is no longer $ 0.00
    11/30 Buy MONEY FUND PURCHASE Vanguard Cash Deposit >>> this
    appears correct.

    If I do nothing, the total in the Vanguard Cash Deposit is short the amount
    from 11/30 Xfr, however the amount in a different bank account now has that
    interest payment shown deposited. Confused? I am.

    Question: In Moneydance would such a Vanguard Cash Deposit fund be
    considered a security? Or is there another method to handle the fund and
    still have it shown in the Moneydance > Investments > Vanguard Brokerage
    account?

    2. Trying to delete the Security I created in error.
    From Moneydance > Extensions > Toolbox > Security Tools > Can I delete a
    security?
    After deleting anything that was downloaded via Moneydance > Online >
    Download All Accounts that referenced the newly create security (anything
    on 11/30) I get the following result:

    "You want me to look for Security: Vanguard Cash Deposit
    Searching through 39 security (sub) accounts..
       >> Security: Vanguard Cash Deposit is used in Account: Vanguard
    Brokerage - Share holding balance: 0.0

    Checking security for price history...:
       >> Security has no historical prices.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    USAGE FOUND: You are using security: Vanguard Cash Deposit in 1 accounts!
    ... with a share balance of: 0.0. These would need to be removed before
    security deletion

    Sorry - usage of Security: Vanguard Cash Deposit found - refer to script
    output for details..

    <END>"

    I can find no reference to the "Vanguard Cash Deposit" in any account. How
    should I track this one down? It's not in the Portfolio View, Register, or
    Bank Register. If it existed it would be dated 11/30/2022.

    Again, thanks for any and all help. I may be in over my head on this one.
    If I continue to have difficulty straightening this out, could the
    discussion be moved to a private discussion (an how would I do that?).

  3. 3 Posted by dwg on 04 Dec, 2022 02:23 AM

    dwg's Avatar

    Looking at the following transaction:

    11/30 Misc/Inc INTEREST PAYMENT Vanguard Cash Deposit $xx.xx

    I suspect it would work better if Vanguard Cash deposit is defined as a security.

    XFR without a category I believe should transfer the funds to the first account in the Bank list.

  4. 4 Posted by TimberWolf on 04 Dec, 2022 02:43 AM

    TimberWolf's Avatar

    dwg,
    I have defined the Vanguard Cash Deposit fund as a security, just not
    certain that works the way it should in my case.

    The XFR ($ -xx.xx) is defaulting to the first bank account as you point
    out, however I don't want that...
    I want it to be 'reinvested' or "buy" or deposited back into the Vanguard
    Cash Deposit. But since the amount is a negative $ -xx.xx, any attempt to
    alter this line results in a non-zero $xx.xx balance in the Register and
    the Vanguard Cash Deposit is further from what the online account reports.

    I must be missing something that is obvious to others (or everyone else).

    Help!

  5. 5 Posted by dwg on 04 Dec, 2022 03:22 AM

    dwg's Avatar

    Software can only deal with data as it is presented. For a buy a transaction the download would either need to be a DivReinv or a Div/MiscInc followed by a Buy.

    You cannot deposit money into a security, cash is always held at the level of the Investment account, and it is 'free' cash not cash associated with any security. Investment accounts do not understand about cash investments as such. This is why it is necessary to set them up as Securities then use buy/sell transactions to maintain the "balance" usually at a price per share of $1.

    Funds have various ways of trying to show things in their downloads, some can be quite creative, a negative transaction implies the removal of money and does imply a movement to an account outside of the investment but to do this and end up in the right account would need an entry for the category in the transaction that matches the account name the funds are to go to.

    Many users report about having to edit entries downloaded from investment houses.

  6. 6 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 04 Dec, 2022 08:15 AM

    Stuart Beesley (Mr Toolbox)'s Avatar

    To make private, go to this thread online and tick the private box:

    https://infinitekind.tenderapp.com/discussions/investments/7291-van...

  7. 7 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 04 Dec, 2022 08:17 AM

    Stuart Beesley (Mr Toolbox)'s Avatar

    To delete the cash security, go to the ‘ Vanguard
    Brokerage’ investment account, and then the details tab, then top right, click actions, remove security. Select the cash security.

  8. 8 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 04 Dec, 2022 08:19 AM

    Stuart Beesley (Mr Toolbox)'s Avatar

    I suspect if you delete the Xfr txn then
    A) the cash will be left in your investment account
    B) your cash balance will now be correct

    Try it?

  9. 9 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 04 Dec, 2022 08:28 AM

    Stuart Beesley (Mr Toolbox)'s Avatar

    I think VG creates a fake transfer to hold the cash in a security sub account, but MD can’t do this, so you will need to delete the Xfr and hold the cash as free cash in the investment account.

  10. 10 Posted by TimberWolf on 04 Dec, 2022 04:24 PM

    TimberWolf's Avatar

    Tried that. It cannot be removed even when I delete the entries that refer
    to it.

  11. 11 Posted by TimberWolf on 04 Dec, 2022 04:25 PM

    TimberWolf's Avatar

    If I delete the Xfr transaction, the balance in the vanguard brokerage is
    non-zero and not displayed as in the portfolio view.

  12. 12 Posted by TimberWolf on 04 Dec, 2022 05:26 PM

    TimberWolf's Avatar

    The questionable ***blank*** transaction is listed on Vanguard's website
    list as "Reinvestment" $ -xx.xx, however when it's downloaded by Moneydance
    the action is listed as "Xfr".

    I'm not quite certain how to rectify this.

    The way I see it, there are two registry entries involved with this problem:
    1. 11/30 MiscInc Interest Payment to "Van Cash" $ xx.xx
    2. 11/30 Xfr ***blank*** to "Bank acc1" $ -xx.xx

    Vanguard's website lists these transactions as:
    1. 11/30 "Interest" (vs MiscInc) $ xx.xx
    2. 11/30 "Reinvestment" (vs Xfr) $ -xx.xx

    Note:
    If I delete the "Xfr" entry, the next "moneydance > online > download"
    brings it back so that's not really an answer.
    And the Register Balance is no longer $0.00.
    And the Current Value of Cash Deposit is still short of the "interest".

    Correcting the Xfr....
    1. Could I make a bank account entry to 'return' the "Xfr" amount back to
    "Van Cash"? So far, I've failed with my tests. If it's possible, how
    would I do this?
    2. Is there a better way to fix this?

    Any suggestions would be appreciated
    Thanks for your help..

  13. 13 Posted by TimberWolf on 04 Dec, 2022 08:30 PM

    TimberWolf's Avatar

    MAY have stumbled on a Manual Correction that results in a zero Register
    Balance and a correct VG Cash value in the Portfolio:

    See if the following makes any sense:
    Note: These are alterations to the Registry entry: "Xfr blank $ -xx.xx

    Change Action: from "Xfr" to "Buy"
    Add Description: "Vanguard Cash Deposit Interest"
                  2nd line: "Manual Correction xfr <> buy" Change Security Category: "Vanguard Cash Deposit"
    Change Share Price: $ xx.xx (positive value)
                                               Amount Fee: $ xx.xx (positive value)                                               # shares: 1

    Results:
    1. No xfr to Moneydance Bank account.
    2. Register Balance is $ 0.00
    3. Security "Vanguard Cash Deposit" is now correct in the portfolio.
    4. Subsequent Moneydance Vanguard Account Downloads do not add or alter
    existing Registry entries.

    I'm hoping this is a proper way to manually correct the Register entry...
    that is unless someone sees a potential problem.
    So far, it seems to be working.

    Thanks for everyone's assistance.

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