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151 Posted by aforkosh on 30 Apr, 2025 05:12 PM
In respose to derekkent23:
[Running after 9:30am PDT]:
Both Yahoo and Yahoo HD failed for me from the start. I did a run with the source set to Yahoo and the Concole Messages parameter to 'Detailed'. Every request generated this: 'Quote Load>INFO-pool-4-thread-3(GetQuoteTask,call) error returned 429' for each request.'
I subsequently did a manual lookup of historical data for a security and the web page returned fine.
So, to reiterate my initial question: if I switch to the lowest paid license for Alpha Vantage (unlimited daily quotes, delivered at a rate of 75 quotes/minute with a delay of 15 minutes in reporting), can Quote Loader handle a 3-4 minute run (for 200 securities) without timing out or suffering some other failure?
152 Posted by Timppa on 30 Apr, 2025 05:36 PM
Same error as aforkosh.
And I'll +1 their request to code a throttle into Alpha Vantage, or heck, all the data sources. Allow the user to specify X/[min/day]. That solves the AV problem and future-proofs any throttle Yahoo may decide to impose.
153 Posted by Mike Bray (Quot... on 30 Apr, 2025 06:12 PM
To answer several questions, 'some sort of throttling is required' means
I have to add some code to spread the calls to Yahoo over a few minutes
so that Yahoo does not return a 429 code. The user can not do anything.
By the way I am not surprised that Yahoo has found a way of stopping
large numbers of calls.
Quote Loader will run the requests as fast as your machine allows. If
AlphaVantage detects too many calls QL will put up an error message.
Regards
Mike
On 30/04/2025 18:13, aforkosh wrote:
154 Posted by Timppa on 30 Apr, 2025 06:36 PM
I'll repeat my lament that you can't simply throttle the AV requests in line with their published API limits for the free and paid versions.
It seems like a simple matter. You've already got the date/time of the last update attached to each security. Just go through X securities from oldest to most recently updated, where X is the published limit, then pause and wait for the published throttle interval.
It kills me that we have to rely on scraping Yahoo to do this.
The Moneydance team should look into bundling AlphaVantage in with the Moneydance+ subscription. You may be able to get a better rate negotiating in bulk than individuals can. For most retail investors the AV tiers are massive overkill. This would be a feature that would convince me to sign up for +, FWIW.
155 Posted by Justin Case on 30 Apr, 2025 06:54 PM
On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 2:37 PM Timppa <[email blocked]>
wrote:
156 Posted by aforkosh on 30 Apr, 2025 07:30 PM
Response to Mike Bray:
So, QL will NOT timeout while processing a load from Alphavantage which may take several minutes, right? It will just pass along any errors from AlphaVantage.
I ask this because that had been an issue with Yahoo loads in the past.
So, my current plan is to sign up for Alphavantage's $50 plan for a month and monitor progress on restoring the usefulness of the Yahoo HD feed.
157 Posted by Timppa on 30 Apr, 2025 08:08 PM
If you have to manage AlphaVantage's throttles by hand, it's easier with the Q&ER extension, IMHO
Basically, go into the main extension screen (snippet attached), check off X number of securities, click "Update Now" at the bottom. Once it finishes, uncheck, wait out the throttle period, check another X, rinse and repeat.
You accomplish the same workflow with Quote Loader but it requires more clicks in the GUI to change/disable the source for each security.
Either way it's tedious and I desperately wish one or both extensions would implement a throttle.
158 Posted by derekkent23 on 09 May, 2025 07:10 AM
It was Mike’s generous that developed Quote Loader from its early beginning with another developer Lee. When Lee dropped out Mike took on the full responsibility and over the years turned Quote Loader into an essential tool that many users depend on that substantially enhances Moneydance. As a third party extension writer he has done this for free, no financial gain. But I guess there comes a point were when part of something breaks it’s time to let go. Mike has reached that time. As someone who has supported Mike with testing and PDF notes for each of his new builds, as Quote Loader has grown over the years, I thank Mike for his efforts. A end of an era.
159 Posted by Mike T on 09 May, 2025 07:33 AM
Thank you Mike, and also Derek, for the huge efforts you have both put in, in making this tool as fantastic as it is.
I know from personal experience (enhancing/supporting a similar model travel based web app) how much effort it requires, especially with no financial support. You both deserve huge kudos and thanks from everyone who has benefited from this tool over the years.
Is there anyway to keep it moving forwards?
160 Posted by dwg on 09 May, 2025 07:40 AM
There are some tools that are being reported as still working, thus indicating they are doing the download differently, there is a pointer to one post in the forums about making use of a user agent.
161 Posted by dtd on 09 May, 2025 07:49 AM
There are indeed ways to move forward - just it is time to pass the torch.
162 Posted by clarkcm2017 on 09 May, 2025 12:51 PM
Thank you Mike and those who help him. I agree that this tool makes
Moneydance that much more
useful. Is it time for Moneydance to formally include this feature in their
software?
Charles M Clark
On Fri, May 9, 2025 at 3:50 AM dtd <[email blocked]> wrote:
163 Posted by gandrews82 on 09 May, 2025 01:08 PM
Thanks Mike for all the work that you have put into developing this tool and keeping it fresh. Thanks to others who have supported you. It is a brilliant aspect of moneydance for me and it’s much appreciated.
164 Posted by Ambassador Dave on 09 May, 2025 04:53 PM
Piling in to also share a much belated thanks to Mike & Derek for all your efforts on Quote Loader. It's way too easy to take volunteer efforts for granted and not even send along a thanks until it's 'too late'. Thank you for your years of work on this tool, it really helped make Moneydance a full financial management platform.
165 Posted by aforkosh on 09 May, 2025 05:23 PM
I have thanked Mike in the thread that he just started for making Quote Loader the most viable way to track security prices in Moneydance. Hopefully, someone else can take over support.
I have encountered a problem with the interface to AlphaVantage:
I track about 200 securities and have signed up for their cheapest paid plan which guarantees tracking an unlimited number of securities at the rate of 75/minute (with a 15-minute delay). Using Quote Loader, only results for the first 175 securities listed are returned. I guess that, somehow QL exceeds a buffer limit, so it needs to submit requests a bit slower for large groups of securities. The Quote and Exchange Rates extension seems to submit about 1 request /second and eventually completes. Unfortunately, I think is user interface for that extension is horrible.
166 Posted by Mike Bray (Quot... on 09 May, 2025 05:39 PM
Interesting Sean wants to drop Quote Loader in favour of Q&ER. I think this
is a mistake. If someone can take up the mantle with QL then it will be the
best solution, but that is my opinion.
167 Posted by Stuart Beesley ... on 09 May, 2025 06:18 PM
Thanks again Mike for QL. I use it and will be lost without it. I’ve tried Q&ER and had to give up on that. As you say, I hope we find a way to keep QL going. It’s probably the best and most useful extensions that exist for MD.
168 Posted by dwg on 09 May, 2025 09:14 PM
In the first place I do not see that Q & ER has been getting the attention it needs, it has gone for long periods without working and thus leaves customers to find other solutions themselves.
If you own shares getting updated prices is a core requirement.
169 Posted by Timppa on 10 May, 2025 12:14 AM
I'll make the counter-argument: I prefer Q&ER's interface and ease of use.
Not a knock on QL, it was great when it worked, b/c I didn't have to play the tedious manual throttle game required by Alpha Vantage's API limits. Those limits are the only thing that ever broke Q&ER in the many years that I've used it. If not for that change by Alpha Vantage, I'd never have discovered QL.
I realize I'm in the minority here, looking at most other comments, but from my perspective Q&ER coming back as the main supported solution and (presumably) getting more TLC from Sean/TIK is the best possible outcome.
Support Staff 170 Posted by Sean Reilly on 10 May, 2025 10:06 AM
I'm at fault here for not keeping the Q&ER extension up to date. I really appreciate Mike's writing of QL and having supported it for so many years, but this is a thing that TIK should be responsible for going forward that's what I'll be doing. I admit I got lazy about keeping Q&ER updated because QL was there for us to refer customers to.
Q&ER has been open source with a liberal license since 2008 and is relatively easy to add support for additional sources, and Mike has graciously given me permission to adapt his code for pulling transactions from FT into this codebase, so I'll be doing that as soon as possible.
I've updated Q&ER recently to make Alphavantage connections work again, and am updating the throttling to make it better handle the limited number of daily connections as well as the connections-per-minute limit.
I also have some ideas for making the Q&ER interface more informative and streamlined, such as allowing a two step process for downloading prices and displaying them before saving into your moneydance data.
Thanks!
Sean
--
Sean Reilly
Developer, The Infinite Kind
https://infinitekind.com
171 Posted by dwg on 10 May, 2025 10:57 AM
It would be good to look at why other solutions are still working with Yahoo.
172 Posted by derekkent23 on 10 May, 2025 11:30 AM
Hi Sean. I am glad you are going to take a look improving Q&ER including adding FT and FT HD as sources. Also some users find the ability to obtain Market indices, Crypto currency exchange rates and Market futures a useful feature.
Beyond that it would be great if you used the Quote Loader UI to give clarity and flexibility.
The Advantages QL UI has includes:
Ticker
Security Name
Source
Last Price
Price Date
New Price
% change
Amount Change
Trade Date
Trade Currency
Volume
You can sort the table by any of the above to increase readability.
You can select individual sources for each security. You can even use the Alt Ticker feature to allow different source to have different Tickers.
The above only scratches the surface of the features included in the QL interface.
Group setting of source:
Do not Load
Yahoo
Yahoo HD
FT
FT HD
Alpha Vantage HD
You can also test if a Security will return a price. Copy information, e.g. Tickers. Security names etc.
If a security fails to return a price you can edit the new price box and trade date and save your manually entered data along with the other securities. No need to go elsewhere in Moneydance to update prices.
QL Auto Run is flexible and comprehensive including being able to set securities and exchange rate auto runs separately.
The QL Parameter tab allows the user to set up QL how they want it to run.
For example in QL there is the export CSV file feature.
I am certain that when you read my PDF’s and watched my video and in use all these features and more would have been apparent and justified using the QL UI.
So Sean to sum up, my advice would be to use the QL UI, along with your under the bonnet improvements to Q&ER.
173 Posted by davet65 on 11 May, 2025 12:36 AM
I am a casual user of QL, and haven't used Q&ER, so don't even understand much of the discussion, pro and con, here. I just ask that the situation gets resolved with a robust, easy-to-use quote source.
I do suggest 2 features that I hope are included in Q&ER:
The ability to use a simple list of securities and include DO NOT LOAD, as I routinely update holdings that I have that are not "securities" per se - like insurance policies.
Second, if QL goes away from MD, PLEASE include an ability to transfer the QL setup I have to Q&ER.
174 Posted by dwg on 11 May, 2025 01:02 AM
Q & ER has always had a "Do Not Load" option, set on a security by security basis.
The basic security list in both solutions comes from the Moneydance securities data.
As it stands Q & ER is a very simply utility with minimal options, many QL options have no parallel in Q & ER so transferring the configuration is not viable.
175 Posted by dwg on 11 May, 2025 01:43 AM
@derrickkent23
Some good points. I think you are largely saying that Quote Loader has the flexibility and options in it to allow the user to set it up as needed. For example many of us use the scheduling feature to ensure we get the prices at the right time, and things like Alt Tickers to deal with different sources, especially where the North American market is involved. Of course in the U.K. you have to deal with Pounds vs Pence at times.
The Q & ER extension is a pretty basic utility hence the UI is fairy sparse, there are few options.
Quote Loader as we know has a variety of options, hence a more involved UI, but still pretty easy to navigate, after a few uses it becomes second nature.
Australia is somewhat different from what is seen in N.A. & the U.K., we have to specify the exchange in all cases, the default of any of the sources is not appropriate. Of more significance here is that we need sources that have Australian quotes. For example for some securities I have seen Yahoo have the quote yet Yahoo HD did not, FT has not always had the quotes for more minor stocks. It also appears Alpha Vantage has dropped the Australian market (one suspects not enough $$'s in it for them) thus removing one potential quote source for users here.
176 Posted by Jeff Bush on 11 May, 2025 01:41 PM
Thanks Mike for all your free work over the years...it has made MD a viable software.
I hope Sean decides to pick up the QL mantle.
Sean.....for me QER returns a java exception error? and QL using FT returns correct data for most; but returns zeros on some securities. Where do i go from here as neither option is working correctly?
177 Posted by dwg on 11 May, 2025 01:50 PM
For Java errors on Q & ER that is in Sean's court.
For QL returning zeros, we may be able to help, you need to provide us with the full name of the security, the ticker symbol and the last known price.
178 Posted by Jeff Bush on 11 May, 2025 02:17 PM
QL (using FT) is not returning:
Alphabet Inc. (GOOG)
154.38
179 Posted by Mike Bray (Quot... on 11 May, 2025 02:24 PM
Use goog with an exchange of NasDaq, or use an alternative ticker of
GOOG:NSQ, no exchange
180 Posted by Joe_H on 11 May, 2025 04:01 PM
Mike, I'm also having an issue with FT for: VTI (Vanguard Total Stock
Market ETF) from Nasdaq. I tried the exchange modification you
mentioned, but it didn't work. Any ideas for that one? Thanks in advance.