MBNA Card transactions reversed after site change

flying.boy's Avatar

flying.boy

07 Mar, 2019 10:34 AM

Moneydance 2017.8 (1678) Mac OSX HighSierra 10.13.6 Long-time user.

Recently the credit card company did a major redesign of their website. Down loading transactions as either a .csv file or as a .qif now has the Debits/Credits reversed compared with before they changed the site.

I reported this to their Customer Services people who said they would refer it to their Development team. That was 10 days ago and nothing seems to have changed.

Can someone else with access to the MBNA site with their own account please try this to confirm/contradict my experience? If confirmed, perhaps an independent referral to MBNA?

I haven't updated my MD software recently (works, don't fix) so it isn't a MD version issue (probably). Something changed at MBNA.

Thanks
David

Showing page 2 out of 3. View the first page

  1. 31 Posted by flying.boy on 23 Mar, 2019 10:11 AM

    flying.boy's Avatar

    Thank you Jagnut for the confirmation - I was wondering if it was just me.

    I wonder if I can prevail upon you to report this as a Complaint to MBNA? If you get involved with a first-level Denier, tell them the problem has been reported by someone else under a reference number 14169858. Or you can short-circuit the whole process by just phoning a ‘me too’ comment to my techie at MBNA. He gave me the reference number. Name is Nathan Evans. His direct phone line is 01244 757128 and you can often key in his direct extension code 1582698 to get straight to his desk.

    So happy it is not just me ….

    David

    PS DO NOT PHONE NATHAN! See my post of 27/3
    --
    I try to remain focused but I can't shake one nagging thought:
    I am an old dog and this is a new trick.

  2. 32 Posted by Neil on 23 Mar, 2019 04:21 PM

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    Already reported

  3. 33 Posted by mark_young on 25 Mar, 2019 04:42 PM

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    I noticed this reversal today. The problem is that value in the .QIF file is T4.00 when it should be T-4.00. This is what switches it from debit to credit. I've just rung Nathan who took my details and was extremely helpful.
    If you want to work with the .QIF files right now, before they are fixed, you can save the file. Open it in notepad. Change the Tx values to T-x and vice versa the T-x to Tx. Then you can import it and the transactions should be correctly shown.
    For reference here is the QIF specification page on Wikipedia where it confirms that a payment should be presented as a negative number.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quicken_Interchange_Format
    See the Details Items section in the table code T says 'Amount of the item. For payments, a leading minus sign is required.'

    Hopefully this will get resolved.
    Cheers,
    Mark

  4. 34 Posted by flying.boy on 25 Mar, 2019 05:13 PM

    flying.boy's Avatar

    Thanks for that, Mark. I found it easier to use the .csv file to edit and re-import, but each to his own(!)

    I’m interested to know in what way Nathan at MBNA was helpful (nay, extremely helpful). Has he accepted that there is an error? Has he promised to fix it? Did he indicate what will happen next?

    Still very frustrated, but it helps to know I have company.

    David

    A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way.

  5. 35 Posted by flying.boy on 25 Mar, 2019 05:22 PM

    flying.boy's Avatar

    Thanks Mark. Nice to know I’m not alone.

    I’m curious to know what made you say that Nathan at MBNA was extremely helpful …

    Did he just suggest the workaround, or has he confirmed that there is a problem at MBNA and it will be fixed?

    KBO

    David


    A shortcut has to be a challenge, otherwise it would just be the way.

  6. 36 Posted by mark_young on 27 Mar, 2019 03:30 PM

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    Hi David,
    Nathan took ownership of this issue when I rang him out of the blue mentioning the details you provided above. That was particularly impressive given that I'd rung the main customer services helpline, that was shown on the MBNA website, earlier in the day and they'd basically said 'That's the way it is. We can't help you'.
    By contrast Nathan was willing to listen and engage.
    He has given me a reference number that is linked to me, rather than yours, and made contact with the technical team. They have requested I provide step by step instructions and details of the problem. Which I will aim to do later today. Once they receive those details they will investigate further and I'm hoping they agree to change sign of the amount in the QIF file.
    Cheers,
    Mark

  7. 37 Posted by mark_young on 27 Mar, 2019 03:41 PM

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    BTW apologies. I've only just discovered and read page 1 of this discussion thread. So I'm sorry for the repetition in what I said.

  8. 38 Posted by flying.boy on 27 Mar, 2019 03:47 PM

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    Hi Mark

    I am impressed!

    Both by your perseverance and by Nathan taking ownership.

    If there is any realism at MBNA, this should be sorted soon.

    David

  9. 39 Posted by flying.boy on 27 Mar, 2019 05:54 PM

    flying.boy's Avatar

    FROM THE OP:

    I've just taken a phone call from a guy (Chris) at MBNA who is in a position to see that the issue is put where it can make a difference, and he has a) understood the issue and
    b) undertaken to contact me when there is any kind of progress.

    I believe him and I await his call.

    Meanwhile he has begged me to remove Nathan from the 'contact list', as fielding this query is not part of his duties and he is getting sidetracked.

    So PLEASE, despite what we have written before, DO NOT PHONE NATHAN!

    I will keep this forum updated with any progress.

    Thank you.

    David

  10. 40 Posted by mark_young on 27 Mar, 2019 09:29 PM

    mark_young's Avatar

    Hi David,

    That's great news. I have emailed the details requested to them too. If anyone asks the reference number I've been given is 14190032. Fingers crossed Chris can get this resolved. I do hope they appreciate that Nathan is the one that has made sure this got the attention it needed.

    Cheers,
    Mark

  11. 41 Posted by Gerald Ponting on 28 Mar, 2019 08:25 AM

    Gerald Ponting's Avatar

    Greatly appreciate efforts to resolve this.

    I had it on my list to 'phone Nathan at MBNA' today, so have now crossed
    this off and will await developments!

    Gerald

  12. 42 Posted by dwg on 28 Mar, 2019 08:44 AM

    dwg's Avatar

    In my view a bank has only got itself to blame if it takes contacting the wrong person to get something done, their customer facing team failed to handle the problem correctly so they should take a look at themselves in the mirror and realise they caused this themselves.

    If they complain about customers contacting a person they should not then they should be left in absolutely no doubt as to why it has happened.

  13. 43 Posted by Mike Bray (Quot... on 24 Apr, 2019 07:45 AM

    Mike Bray (Quote Loader Author)'s Avatar

    I too have this problem. I have written a small extension to allow you to read an MBNA file and reverse the amounts prior to saving the transactions. You will find the extension here:
    https://bitbucket.org/mikerb/moneydance-2019/downloads/

    It is called qifloader.mxt. Download it and use Manage Extensions/Add from file to load the extension. Hopefully it is self explanatory.

    Note this is for MD 2019 only. I will work on a version for 2017.

    Also, I have raised a complaint with MBNA and they recognise the issue and will keep me informed of any progress on fixing this.

    Lastly, this extension has been tested with MD 2019 on Windows and I have received some sensible suggestions concerning improvements. I will be working on this and testing on Mac and Unix in early May.

  14. 44 Posted by flying.boy on 24 Apr, 2019 08:02 AM

    flying.boy's Avatar

    Thank you for the information, Mike. It is helpful that you have raised the complaint with MBNA. Like you I was taken seriously, but to date I have only received fortnightly ‘holding’ letters saying they are continuing to look into it.

    As for work-arounds there are several ways to do it using a manipulation of a .csv file and your manipulation of the .qif file is bold! But unless there is a proper fix soon I shall be moving my accounts away from MBNA.

    I’ll report to the forum if I ever hear anything substantive from MBNA.

    KBO
    David

  15. 45 Posted by Mike Bray (Quot... on 24 Apr, 2019 08:22 AM

    Mike Bray (Quote Loader Author)'s Avatar

    Thanks David, my extension does not manipulate the QI|F file it reads it, switches the values and then loads the transactions into Moneydance. It only works on Bank and Credit Card accounts. This extension bypasses the MD Import feature.

  16. 46 Posted by Mike Bray (Quot... on 24 Apr, 2019 10:19 AM

    Mike Bray (Quote Loader Author)'s Avatar

    I have now compiled a version for MD 2015/17. It can be found at:

    https://bitbucket.org/mikerb/moneydance-2015/downloads/

  17. 47 Posted by Mike Bray (Quot... on 24 Apr, 2019 11:56 AM

    Mike Bray (Quote Loader Author)'s Avatar

    I have uploaded a new version for 2019, it has been tested on Unix and Mac.

    https://bitbucket.org/mikerb/moneydance-2019/downloads/

  18. 48 Posted by Mike Bray (Quot... on 25 Apr, 2019 11:00 AM

    Mike Bray (Quote Loader Author)'s Avatar

    Just spoken to the complaints manager at MBNA. He informed me that because MBNA has been taken over by Lloyds that this is how their systems work and they will not be changing the system. I informed him that they maybe loosing customers which he recognised but he could not offer anything.

  19. 49 Posted by flying.boy on 25 Apr, 2019 11:26 AM

    flying.boy's Avatar

    That’s bad news. I wonder if he knows, or is just following a party line he’s heard from someone who doesn’t know either.

    I’ll wait so see how my own complaint is handled. If it is the same as yours, I may try bringing it to the attention of someone like the Guardian money page.

    Anyway I’ve started looking elsewhere, to a non-Lloyds provider.

    david
    --

     If things get any worse,
       I'll have to ask you
         to stop helping me.

  20. 50 Posted by dwg on 25 Apr, 2019 11:32 AM

    dwg's Avatar

    Sign reversal problems with Lloyds downloads has been noted on the forums before, I found a reference in 2017 and one as far back as 2012.

  21. 51 Posted by flying.boy on 19 May, 2019 10:19 AM

    flying.boy's Avatar

    From the OP

    Several weeks ago I submitted my bug report as an official complaint (via a telephone conversation) and after several 'holding' letters I was telephoned yesterday by my contact at MBNA, Chris.

    Chris announced that my complaint has been upheld! They have accepted there is a problem and will fix it. Chris says the fix is 'non-trivial' and was unable to offer a timescale, except to say it has been addressed 'at the highest level".

    Perseverance seems to be paying off, after weeks of doubting my sanity and creeping resignation.

    I suspect that what got things moving was an upsurge of similar complaints. So if anyone reading is responsible for that, many thanks.

    David I'll report again if/when the fix is in.

  22. 52 Posted by Mike Bray (Quot... on 20 May, 2019 01:45 PM

    Mike Bray (Quote Loader Author)'s Avatar

    Interesting as they refused mine, however, I did tell them that MBNA is a very popular credit card and that many of their customers use Moneydance and that I would be moving my account away from MBNA which I am in the process of doing.

  23. 53 Posted by dmschlesinger on 10 Aug, 2019 09:10 PM

    dmschlesinger's Avatar

    I'm having the same problem with Bank of America when I download as WebConnect. If I use .QIF (4 digit) it works, although I have to link the download with the account each time.

  24. 54 Posted by flying.boy on 11 Aug, 2019 01:32 AM

    flying.boy's Avatar

    Am I right in thinking that MBNA and Bank of America are connected?

    Anyway it is 3 months since MBNA wrote to me accepting the rightness of my complaint yet still the downloads come out with the wrong polarity.

    I use the workaround of downloading a .csv file, manipulating the data, and importing the amended file into Moneydance.

    David

  25. 55 Posted by Steve106 on 10 Sep, 2019 09:36 AM

    Steve106's Avatar

    Interesting thread, I also experienced this issue of MBNA reversing the polarity of the transactions after the website makeover. I raised a formal complaint with MBNA explaining in detail what was wrong and was promised a response once it had been investigated - this response has never materialised. At the time I was a fairly new Moneydance user and didn't think of looking on the forum. Just yesterday I was on the phone to MBNA for other reasons and having spent some time earlier in the day manually editing the download file to correct the 'polarity' before import, the irritation was still fresh in my mind. I took the opportunity to raise it again with the support agent who was not very receptive but I persevered until the issue was logged again. We will see what happens but I am not hopeful.
    However I also have always had the same wrong 'polarity' issue with my Capitol One (UK) downloads and was thinking that it might just be easier to request that the Moneydance team include an option for the user to have Moneydance reverse the polarity as part of the import process, this way it could be used for any institution that has an oddly wrongheaded approach to basic arithmetic. Now I see that Mike Bray has proactively developed this very functionality as an independent extension. I haven't tried this yet as I am a bit reluctant to introduce external unapproved software into my personal finances but at least it shows that it can be done.
    How do we go about getting Infinite Kind to adopt this officially into the mainstream Moneydance application?
    Your thoughts please.

  26. 56 Posted by Gerald Ponting on 10 Sep, 2019 12:57 PM

    Gerald Ponting's Avatar

    My workaround, very laborious if you have a really large number of
    transactions each month, is to download the QIF file with the 'reversed
    polarity' data from MBNA into Moneydance, then go down the two columns
    of entries and type a minus sign in front of each value, which promptly
    swaps it to the other column. An annoying loss of 10-15 minutes of my
    time, but I prefer it to messing around with csv files or adding extra
    software. Still hoping MBNA will sort it out soon!

    Gerald

  27. 57 Posted by flying.boy on 10 Sep, 2019 03:07 PM

    flying.boy's Avatar

    I’ve had a £25 compensation from MBNA when they upheld my original complaint, but the situation has not improved.

    My workaround is to download the csv file, set up a new column with a formula to be the negative multiplier to the old column, then import as a text file, specifying the altered column as the Amount. A real pain, not being able to just use a qif file, but not very time-consuming, however long the table is.

    I currently have 3 mbna cards which I am gearing up to replace.

    Good luck!

    David


    Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.

  28. 58 Posted by derekkent23 on 10 Sep, 2019 07:22 PM

    derekkent23's Avatar

    I am not support staff, just a user.

    For those who have not tried Mike Brays QIF extension or are reluctant to do so perhaps it worth reading this thread https://infinitekind.tenderapp.com/discussions/problems/56268-rever...

    Hope this helps.

  29. 59 Posted by Mike Bray (Quot... on 11 Sep, 2019 06:54 AM

    Mike Bray (Quote Loader Author)'s Avatar

    As Derek has pointed out my extension does the trick, I do think it is a bit cumbersome as I wrote it based on a different extension as a quick and dirty solution to this problem. I have since switched my main credit card from MBNA to another provider, however, when I have a few spare hours I will look at streamlining the extension.

  30. 60 Posted by Steve106 on 11 Sep, 2019 07:45 AM

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    Thanks everyone for your contributions to this topic. I'm interested to know which credit cards people in the UK have had good experiences with data downloads. By good experiences I mean a decent choice of formats with the data in the correct polarity! Personally I prefer the OFX format as it prevents any accidental duplication from overlapping imported transactions. Aside from MBNA I currently have a Capitol One card but this only offers .CSV with the wrong polarity!!! Recommendations please.

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