MoneyDance bank connectivity for Canadians
This has been an ongoing question that I have not yet seen a conclusive answer to yet.
For this reason, I have not opted to try MoneyDance yet.
Does TD CanadaTrust, and for that matter, other Canadian banks, allow me to seamlessly connect and get my banking information?
I saw a recent post where MoneyDance+ apparently will do this now, but I haven't seen anyone confirm this.
Also, will it provide investment transactions as well?
Finally, if I understood correctly, there will be a fee for this service. Is that correct and if so, how much?
Thanks in advance.
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Support Staff 1 Posted by Maddy on 26 Apr, 2022 02:03 PM
Hi Ron,
Thank you for contacting Moneydance support.
Firstly, please note that Moneydance + supports Canadian banks as mentioned in our blog.
In addition, we've recently released Moneydance 2022.3 (4073) that among other features, allows you to connect to investment accounts using Moneydance +.
This version is now available to download from this page.
Please note Moneydance + is a premium service that requires:
1) You own a license of Moneydance 2022
2) a subscription ($2 monthly) - for further information please refer to this section of the Knowledge base.
I hope this information is helpful. Please let us know if you have further questions or need more assistance.
--
Maddy, Infinite Kind Support
2 Posted by Ron Turnbull on 26 Apr, 2022 07:16 PM
Hi Maddy,
Regrettably, after downloading the latest version of Moneydance, the Quicken import facility does not work properly. (it didn't work in the previous version either but the algorithm wanted the user to change every date for every transaction in every account in real time). With 2022 version, it at least imports the data but gets it wrong for specific transactions. I have no doubt this issue will affect anyone trying to import Quicken.
Without the import working, tens (if not hundreds of thousands) of Quicken users will not be able to try to switch over from Quicken. That's millions of dollars of revenue.
I know what the issue is but that does not help me since I don't have access to the Quicken import code.
I'll wait a few days before I request a refund just in case anyone there was going to attempt to help me with this.
On Tuesday, April 26, 2022, 07:03:43 a.m. PDT, Maddy <[email blocked]> wrote:
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3 Posted by derekkent23 on 26 Apr, 2022 07:43 PM
I am not support staff, just a user.
Hi Ron
Many user have switched from Quicken to Moneydance. For support or others to be able to help you would need to detail the issues you are having after you follow the process as detailed below.
Make sure you are running this build of Moneydance https://infinitekind.com/preview
You need to use Quicken to export your data in a QIF file type. Ensure any closed account that have transfers to any open accounts are included in the QIF file, re-open these accounts if necessary. Export everything Quicken export will allow.
Open the QIF file in a text editor. You are looking for the date format used in the file e.g., D25/03'2019 Day Month Year or D5/ 17'19 or D05/31/2017 Month Day Year etc. You will need this information later. If you get this wrong, it will be apparent as the dates in Moneydance will be all over the place and you will need to start again creating a new data set.
QIF files were never meant for transferring data from one program to another, but it’s all that is available, you will need to spend time cleaning thing up when import is complete.
When you first start Moneydance it opens in the Welcome window click on “Create a new account set”. If you have opened Moneydance before creating a new data set under FILE (MONEYDANCE on Mac) – NEW.
Select “Create New File” (Data Set) and click NEXT. Type in an Account Set Name (Data Set) and click NEXT. Change Primary Currency (base currency), if required. File Type, leave at “Standard Account set”, click FINISH.
In the Side Bar (list on left) under BANK deleted the two default Bank accounts, highlighting them in turn and using ACCOUNT – DELETE ACCOUNT.
NOTE: If you have accounts with currencies that are not in your base currency (foreign currencies) perform the steps under NOTE 1 before importing your QIF file as follows.
Drag and dropped the QIF file into the Side Bar (list on left).
Wait for the Analyzing data window to close, this can take a few minutes. Nothing may appear to happen until the Import window opens.
IMPORTANT: Checked all listed accounts are of the correct type and currency and changed if required.
The “Date Format” should be set to the date format used in the QIF file not the date format you want to use in Moneydance. Select the correct Decimal Character. Later Builds of Moneydance may also include a Text Encoding dropdown, leave at default selection.
Click Import and wait, the process can take some time. Again, nothing may appear to be happening until the process is complete, indicated by the Merging data window closing.
IMPORTANT: When import is complete close and reopen Moneydance.
Some or all of the accounts maybe hidden in the Side Bar, list on left. To make accounts visible click the “+” at the bottom of the Side Bar, then Advanced, then OK. If this does not help, try closing and re-opening Moneydance.
Any accounts that are inactive (closed) should be made inactive. This will remove them from the Summary Page, two columns on the right, in the Account Section as well as from reports. There are two methods to accomplish this:
1. By highlighting the account in the Side Bar and clicking ACCOUNT – EDIT ACCOUNT and ticking the inactive box – OK.
2. Click TOOLS – ACCOUNTS and in the windows that opens double click on the Account Name and in the window that opens tick the inactive box - OK. In the list of Account names Accounts in lighter text are inactive. After making the required changes click DONE.
To remove Accounts from the Side Bar, right click and select REMOVE FROM SIDE BAR.
You can also click the “+” button at the bottom of the Side Bar, click Advance then use the Advance window to determine which items are visible in the Side Bar.
On the Summary Page, two columns on right, if you have Investment Securities, they will be shown in a section STOCK PRICES. This may include securities in which you no longer have holdings. To remove these from the list double click on Security Name – EDIT and then untick SHOW ON SUMMARY PAGE box – OK - X
Some QIF files don’t include initial account balances. If you think this is the case you can add initial balance to affected accounts as follows.
Highlighting an account, then click ACCOUNT – EDIT ACCOUNT and add an Initial Balance.
For investment accounts QIF file don’t always carry security prices other than buy sell prices, so investment account balances maybe wrong until you update with current security prices.
Reminders are not included in QIF files.
Now the real work starts to check balances and tidy thing up. This is especially true of investment accounts as not all action types are supported. But worth it in the end.
For information on how to use Moneydance see https://infinitekind.tenderapp.com/kb
Note 1: This section only applies if you have accounts with currencies that are not in your base currency. For these currencies ensure “Show on summary page” box is ticked under TOOLS – CURRENCIES – highlight subject currency and double click – EDIT.
Note: QIF file do not contain exchange rates. To overcome this QIF file shortcoming the Currency/Security History window must have current and dated exchange rates filled in which cover the date range of transactions in non-base currency account. As well as manually adding exchange rates you can import CSV exchange rate files downloaded from sites on the web. Use IMPORT button in the Currency/Security History window. If you have investment account, their balances will probably be incorrect. This is due to the fact that the currency set in the security history windows will be in the Moneydance base currency. You can change to the correct security currency and provided exchange rates exist the values will be converted. As you do this re-calculation occurs, but I think the results should be correct. No guarantees the section will work correctly.
Hope this helps.
4 Posted by Ron Turnbull on 26 Apr, 2022 09:34 PM
interestingly enough, I just installed the software a few hours ago, so I should have received the most recent version. I ran updater from the program and it indicates that I have the latest version of Moneydance!
Yet, this is not the same version and build as the one you directed me to.
I don't want to start detailing the issue until I am assured that I am running the appropriate version/build.
On Tuesday, April 26, 2022, 12:43:02 p.m. PDT, derekkent23 <[email blocked]> wrote:
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5 Posted by Ron Turnbull on 27 Apr, 2022 01:37 AM
FYI Maddy,
I put the Moneydance purchase transaction through on my credit card. It failed.Then I received a text from my bank warning me that this could be a fraudulent transaction. The text asked me to confirm if it in fact was me. I confirmed and then re-entered the transaction.
The transaction went through the second time.I then received a telephone call from my bank asking me whether I had made the transaction. They were still suspicious of this transaction.
Seems like a lot of unnecessary grief just to purchase some software, given that we regularly make online purchases and have no such issues.
Not off to a great start ... with a company promising me I'll be able to effortlessly connect to my bank and automatically download transactions.
If there is something you can do from your side, this would make for a far better user experience when people want to purchase the software.
Regards,
Ron
On Tuesday, April 26, 2022, 07:03:43 a.m. PDT, Maddy <[email blocked]> wrote:
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6 Posted by Ron Turnbull on 27 Apr, 2022 02:34 AM
Hi Derek,
I see that the version you recommended to me was a "preview" version**.I downloaded and installed it. Imported the QIF file as per your instructions below.
No difference from when I ran it using the previous version that I initially downloaded when I purchased the software today.Looking at the transactions in just one account .... I estimate that half of them have the wrong dates on them.
The screen shot below shows the point where the dates start going wrong.i.e. the highlighted items. (There are hundreds if not thousands after these ones). In a nutshell, the "Balance Adjustment" transaction <see below> is the earliest transaction in the Quicken account. i.e. 2013
It's pretty obvious to me where the problem is since the algorithm gets some dates right but not others. Yet they are all the same format (Year Month Day) in my Quicken file.
*** I'm already concerned that I am using a "special" version of the software in order to get the Quicken import to work. I really wanted a solution that just works.
On Tuesday, April 26, 2022, 12:43:02 p.m. PDT, derekkent23 <[email blocked]> wrote:
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7 Posted by dwg on 27 Apr, 2022 03:38 AM
I'm a fellow user.
Derek recommended the preview version in this case as it includes a lot of fixes. At this stage of the software life cycle preview releases are more like updates containing cumulative fixes. Eventually one of the preview releases will be promoted to stable status.
Incorrect date after importing a QIF file is usually caused by the date format specified during the import not matching the date format inside the QIF file, it it worth noting it has nothing to do with the date format you are using in Moneydance.
Most QIF files that we see use the US format of MDY internally, the only way to confirm this though is to look at the data inside the QIF file and as the file is a simple structured text file it is easy to open it with a text editor like Notepad and have a look.
8 Posted by derekkent23 on 27 Apr, 2022 06:40 AM
I am not support staff, just a user.
Hi Ron
Quicken don’t make it easy for their customer to leave them and switch to another software.
I agree with dwg comments on why you should use the preview version and on the main reason why transactions after import can have the wrong dates.
This is an extract from my post.
Open the QIF file in a text editor. You are looking for the date format used in the file e.g., D25/03'2019 Day Month Year or D5/ 17'19 or D05/31/2017 Month Day Year etc. You will need this information later. If you get this wrong, it will be apparent as the dates in Moneydance will be all over the place and you will need to start again creating a new data set.
And
The “Date Format” should be set to the date format used in the QIF file not the date format you want to use in Moneydance.
Hope this helps.
9 Posted by Ron Turnbull on 27 Apr, 2022 03:46 PM
Hi derek,
I've managed to get the "dates" issue sorted out.
However, that is just the start....
First, it's not clear to me all of the investment transactions that Moneydance supports. We use a wide variety of the available Quicken transactions, no doubt more than most. Even if Quicken does not support something, like options, there was usually a workaround.
The time I would have to spend to feel confident that I am not losing any data because a particular transaction was not supported, especially tax related items like Return of Capital would be huge. I can't afford for these to be wrong.
Then I would need to go thru all of my accounts to get them balanced. I literally have dozens with accounts dating back 10 or more years. And then to make sure that the transition between how Quicken works with Categories and Moneydance works with accounts ...
Then to see if my online connectivity works .... then securities prices updates.
So many of the articles online are very old ... more than a decade. I haven't come across any recent detailed documentation either which is disappointing.
Nothing would please me more than to say goodbye to Quicken this year but I'm getting the feeling I am stuck with them for eternity. All in, Moneydance doesn't offer a better deal on their subscription and appears to be plagued with so many of the issues that Quicken struggles with. Our Quicken data is critical ...
Quicken appears to be working for the moment but it has taken a huge amount of effort to get it that way. We spent several days just one month ago working with Quicken via phone.
I think I am going to put in my request to have my money refunded. It's just not a battle that I am prepared to take on at this point.Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know.
On Tuesday, April 26, 2022, 11:40:26 p.m. PDT, derekkent23 <[email blocked]> wrote:
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10 Posted by derekkent23 on 27 Apr, 2022 04:52 PM
I am not support staff, just a user.
Hi Ron
I understand.
As I said Quicken does not make it easy to swich to other software.
Some points:
Investment can be a game stopper, if your Quicken setup is complex.
Bank/credit type accounts should transfer without any issues provided you opened all closed accounts before export and in Moneydance added opening account balances as Quicken does not export them. Moneydance follows accounting rules so to cant make money appear or disappear from thin air. Quicken allows such bad practise so this can create problems.
There are two methods available for updating security prices so that should not be a problem.
Moneydance’s knowledge base can be found at https://infinitekind.tenderapp.com/kb
And for one of the methods that can be used to update security price see PDF attached to post 210 at
https://infinitekind.tenderapp.com/discussions/investments/4914-the...
I would take issue with Moneydance doesn’t offer a better deal. For the future Moneydance never sunsets the version it releases, it’s a one off cost if you don’t want to upgrade. If you won’t to upgrade the next version is free (say 2021 to 2022) and from then on you get a 50% discount. All upgrades within a version are free.
You can manually download transaction files QFX, OFX or QIF from your online accounts and import into Moneydance. If your bank supports Direct Connect Moneydance will auto download transaction. For those who want to use a third party, Plaid, Moneydance has an optional subscription service. $2 a month.
But I understand with complex situations moving to Moneydance can be overwhelming and its easier to stay with Quicken.
Have Fun, Stay Safe.
11 Posted by dwg on 27 Apr, 2022 10:45 PM
Investment accounts can be complex and is a battle that many of us have had in migrating from Quicken, it can quickly become quite involved.
Moneydance does not have some investment actions that are really needed, to be honest not many programs have the range that is needed, and Moneydance has more than most, Quicken does have a good range but even then it is not able to handle all investment types e.g. it is not good at stapled securities.
Quicken can get away with some of the things it does because it is not based on accounting principles, or really any accepted basis, it is really rather free form and forces some structure through the use of data entry wizards.
Some of us have taken the approach that Moneydance is based on accounting so we need to adopt some accounting approaches to maintain the information. Accounting does not have the everything in one place approach, it makes use of ledgers, journals, worksheets etc. so for many of us some data is maintained outside of Moneydance, for example I use some spreadsheets that I have made a home for inside of the Moneydance data set so it is all kept together. There is however no one way of doing things, so it is unlikely there will ever be a set of instructions.
Many of us strive to have additional functionality added to Moneydance's Investment accounts, but it is acknowledged it can only happen where it can fit into the accounting model. I know I have made a number of suggestions of needed transactions and approaches that could be used to resolve some issues
At the end of the day only you can decide if you are prepared to put in the effort required to migrate from Quicken and it will be some effort.
FWIW RoC is one of the prime actions types that I think Moneydance needs. At a total level it is easy to understand and that is what normally happens in accounting it is applying it on a per share basis that is the problem, the fact that Moneydance can handle some transactions like stock splits and lot matching (actions that many programs cannot handle) suggests this is one that could be implemented, though I would not envisage that it would be trivial.
12 Posted by Ron Turnbull on 28 Apr, 2022 01:32 AM
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
I agree with many of the points you made.
Yes, much of quicken's weakness is due to its simplicity... the idea that it doesn't use proper double entry accounting is not great. I even looked at quickbooks as an option but still not easy to import quicken file, if even possible.
So much of our data is used for annual or ongoing adjusted cost basis. ACB which uses Return of Capital calculations. We run a report every year at tax time and then reconcile that with what CRA (Canada revenue Agency) provides us. It has been good. When we checked in Moneydance, it was off. I just don't want to spend the time and effort to find out why.
All that being said, in the meantime we just cross our fingers that Quicken does not implode. We fight with it almost every year when something breaks. A month ago it looked like we might not be able to fix it. Even backups didn't work without issue and quicken seemed to be aware off that. Besides, after a few years, the new owners will just raise the subscription fee and sell it to another venture capital firm.
I've looked at a least a dozen alternatives in great detail. Moneydance looks to be about the only one that stands a fighting chance based on what I've seen. It really just depends on what you need it to do.
Thanks again.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
On Wed., 27 Apr. 2022 at 3:45 p.m., dwg<[email blocked]> wrote: #yiv7155383296 pre {width:92%;margin:10px 2%;padding:5px 2%;background:#efefef;border:1px solid #d6d6d6;}#yiv7155383296 blockquote {margin-left:0;padding-left:1em;border-left:5px solid #ccc;}
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Maddy closed this discussion on 28 Apr, 2022 11:50 AM.