Syncing two computers: Questions about primary and secondary computer
I sync my MD files between two computers using the "Dropbox Folder" method. The data files are in the default location outside the main Dropbox folder.
I typically enter data on either computer depending on where I am.
About once every few months I will enter and edit some transactions then find a day or two later that some changes have not sync'd to the other computer. Worse, the second computer then syncs back the incorrect state to the first computer, so I have to redo the changes. This happens at transaction level, and I think happens with edited transactions not new ones.
The approved way of resolving sync issues seems to be to turn off syncing on both Macs and delete the .moneydancesync folder. Then turn on syncing again and a new .moneydancesync folder is created.
The problem with doing this is that on the second computer the options to change sync method under Menu -> File are greyed out, including the option to "Don't sync". I think this is because it is the second computer...is this correct? How do I turn off syncing on the second computer?
To avoid these hassles, I am thinking of doing all work on one computer which is actually the one that is currently the second computer.
How can I make my secondary computer be the primary computer?
Thanks.
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1 Posted by derekkent23 on Aug 30, 2017 @ 08:03 AM
I am not support staff, just a user.
You don’t say which build of 2017 you are using? I had similar issues with early builds of 2017 but using the latest Preview build am not having any issues. A number of sync fixes have been performed lately, but are only available in the preview build. Update both your computers from https://infinitekind.com/preview
On your second computer click on HELP – SHOW DOCUMENT FOLDER to open a file explorer, close moneydance and delete your data set “yourdatasetname.moneydance”
Perform the steps you have described on your first computer and Dropbox.
Open moneydance on your first computer and wait for Dropbox folder “.moneydancesync” and its contents to be created.
On your second computer starting moneydance should open in the welcome window, click on “Create a new account set” – “Open Synced File” and perform the initial sync steps.
If you still experience issues report back and we can work on making your second computer your first computer.
Hope this helps.
2 Posted by boreham on Aug 30, 2017 @ 08:13 AM
Thanks very much Derek. I am using latest build 1633 on both Macs, but just seen build 1634 is out now. I should say that this problem has occurred over several builds.
I had realised I could effectively start all over on the second computer as you describe, and that is probably a better way than "turn off sync, delete .moneydancsync and turn on again" method.
What you said would still leave my second computer as the second computer and I would like to make it the primary.
If I turn off sync, delete the data files from my current primary will I be able to set sync method on the current secondary, where the sync options are currently greyed out?
Is it actually correct behaviour that the sync options are greyed out on the secondary computer...or is this indicative of something wrong?
Thanks again
3 Posted by derekkent23 on Aug 30, 2017 @ 08:23 AM
I am not support staff, just a user.
The option on the second computer to change sync method should be greyed out, this is normal.
Do you wont to reverse the rolls of your two computers first becomes second and second becomes first or do you won’t to stop syncing all together and make your second computer the only moneydance computer?
4 Posted by dwg on Aug 30, 2017 @ 08:31 AM
When setting up syncing you should still have the sync options on the second computer assuming you are not using the MAC store version where I would think they not available because dropbox connection is the only method allowed on this version.
The article:
http://help.infinitekind.com/kb/syncing-and-sharing-data/syncing-wi...
describes this although I'm not convinced it is 100% correct, I believe it would be possible to use dropbox connection on one machine and Folder on another for example and I have also seen a reference to using the shared folder options when dropbox was in a non-standard location and pointing to this directory
5 Posted by boreham on Aug 30, 2017 @ 08:32 AM
Derek, thanks for confirming about the second computer being greyed out. So if I effectively delete all traces of Moneydance from my current primary will the sync options stop being greyed out?
Yes I want to reverse the roles and still sync. The second computer is one I use most, and although I would probably still do occasional things on the current primary, I would reduce my exposure to these errors by doing most of the work on just one.
Also I use Moneydance on the iPhone as a read only tool (having discovered that entering data on the phone causes its own sync issues...which may have been resolved by now as I haven't tried entering data on the phone for a while).
6 Posted by boreham on Aug 30, 2017 @ 08:37 AM
Thanks dwg, so actually you are saying different from Derek, that sync options should not be greyed out on the second computer.
The KB article does imply this by saying to select the sync option on the second computer, which I am unable to do.
Once correctly set up is there any meaningful difference between primary and secondary, or is simply a matter of which was created first? I suspect there is actually no difference.
I am thinking maybe I will stop syncing and then erase all traces of MD on the second computer and start afresh with it....maybe the primary as well.
7 Posted by derekkent23 on Aug 30, 2017 @ 08:54 AM
I am not support staff, just a user.
On your first computer make a manual backup FILE – EXPORT BACKUP in case something goes wrong.
Then make copy your data set folder and all its contents from your first computer.
Delete the data set on your first and second computer and the Dropbox folder “.moneydancesync”.
Paste your copy of your data set from the first computer to the default location on the second computer. Open moneydance on this computer and open your data set.
Set up syncing as usual.
If you are running the latest version of the APP on your phone 2.15 I think, things should be OK. I am using the Android version, but since the last update, I haven’t had any problems except as follows.
If I have Moneydance open on both PC’s at the same time and I enter a new transaction or edit a transaction on my phone I get a duplicated transaction on my PC’s. If I add or edit a transaction on my phone with moneydance shut down on both PC’s. Wait a bit. Open moneydance on both PC’s no duplicates, sync is correct. With Moneydance open on one PC only, still no problems. If I open moneydance on the second PC later, still no problem. Don’t have all three devices on at the same time until this issue is fixed.
Hope this helps
8 Posted by derekkent23 on Aug 30, 2017 @ 09:06 AM
I am not support staff, just a user.
On your second computer the FILE – SYNCING message will be as attachment. You can’t change sync method. If however you FILE - RESTORE FROM BACKUP, start new data set, FILE – NEW or open a data set created on a first computer you can change the syncing method.
Hope this helps
9 Posted by boreham on Aug 30, 2017 @ 09:10 AM
Thanks both.
I have to go off grid shortly for a few days and will only have one Mac with me anyway, so will ponder on these inputs and do something next week.
10 Posted by dwg on Aug 30, 2017 @ 09:13 AM
I believe there are operational differences between the primary and secondary computers, I think these should largely remain invisible to the user.
From working with other replication solutions I know that it is possible to have conflict between updates when dealing with multiple sources. while I think it would be rare with MD It is still possible, one of the solutions is to have a first among equals solution, this is akin to having a master system that takes priority over the other systems. Naturally I'm not privy to how TIK have implemented the solution used here, but possibilities include that the master machine makes the decision of what updates to apply and in what order or a more simplistic approach updates from the master system take priority.
11 Posted by boreham on Sep 19, 2017 @ 06:35 AM
Derek and dwg,
I am back now and not done anything about this as everything has been running sweetly for the last four weeks. ie I have not had any recurrence of the problem in my OP. So I have not been motivated to start all over as I said I would.
Also I am reluctant to do anything until I understand better whether the sync options should or shouldn't be greyed on the second computer on correctly setup and operating Moneydance installations on two computers.
Derek's posts #3 and dwg's post #4 seem to say the opposite thing. Derek's post #8 says it will be greyed as screenshot, consistent with his post #3, but then goes on to suggest a way to a way to fix this, implying that it should not be greyed out, which is what dwg says.
Am I misunderstanding something here?
My objective is simply to have my two computers setup to the book and working correctly and I am not clear whether I have that at the moment or not!
Thanks for all the inputs.
12 Posted by gregderananian on Sep 19, 2017 @ 07:28 AM
I'm running MD 2017.5; I no longer seem to have a primary computer. I can get to my correct data, but sync options are greyed out. Also, if I create a new file set to sync through Dropbox Connection, and then I restore from backup, the sync changes, and is greyed out. I am at my wit's end about this. I am sorry if this isn't the correct spot for this, but this is the most relevant open discussion on this topic. I have followed all the instructions in this and other sync discussions, and I am totally stuck.
13 Posted by derekkent23 on Sep 19, 2017 @ 08:13 AM
I am not support staff, just a user.
Hi, gregderananian I suggest you start a new discussion, repeating the information you have provided and relate how you got to where you are now, in as much detail as you can. Sorry but mixing problems in the same discussion can get very confusing.
14 Posted by derekkent23 on Sep 19, 2017 @ 09:55 AM
I am not support staff, just a user.
Hi, boreham. I am a great believer in the maxim “if it’s not broke don’t fix it”.
Let me clarify what I was saying in post #8.
A computer being used as a second computer once set up for syncing will always have the syncing method greyed out under FILE – SYNCING. By this stage you have matched the syncing method to the method used on the first computer, so greying out the selection under FILE – SYNCING, which is only a valid selection on your first computer, makes sense.
In post #4 I think dwg is referring to initial set up off the second computer under FILE - NEW – “Open Synced File” when you can select the sync method.
The second part of by answer describes a way of freeing up the second computer from its role as a second computer. When you make an Export Backup from your first computer part of the process turns off syncing in that backed up file so when you Restore from backup that data set is stand alone, not synced and thus under FILE – SYNCING, syncing method is Don’t Sync, but is not greyed out. This is true if you restore this same backup file using Restore from backup on your second computer, the syncing method is not greyed out and set to Don’t Sync. As an experiment on my second computer, just to see what would happen, I restored from a backup, a backup file created on my second computer. In this instance under FILE – SYNCING, sync method was still greyed out, set to don’t sync, suggesting it is the data set for a second computer, as you might expect. However it does not appear to sync with the first computer and thus is not much use as a backup.
Maybe Support could comment on this?
Anyway a long explanation, but going back to the start, if it is now not broken don’t fix it, unless you still have an issue.
Hope this helps
15 Posted by dwg on Sep 19, 2017 @ 11:25 AM
I can confirm that I was referring to the initial setup with the sync option on the second computer.
Derek, when you restore from backup there should be no sync information in the data set, as you said it is a standalone data set. Given this I would not expect that it could takes the place of the data set on the second computer. I believe that if the sync info was kept there would be too much scope to destroy your data.
If you actually want a backup that preserves the sync links you would have to do backups outside of Moneydance.
Thus with a moneydance backup you have to go back to square one and re-setup syncing between your systems, I do not see any simple way to restore to a running system.
The idea of populating a second or subsequent system using backup up and restore or an initial offline copy of the data is a methodology used with large storage systems (it is often called seeding) such systems can easily have petabytes of storage. With the amount of data in Moneydance and to be blunt being a $50 piece of software I don't think it makes sense to try and implement any capability like that.
16 Posted by boreham on Sep 19, 2017 @ 11:54 AM
Thanks very much both for detailed clarifications and explanations.
Since you have clarified that the second computer should have its sync option greyed out, there is nothing apparently wrong with my configuration.
And since at the moment it is working fine I will follow the recommended "ain't broke..." policy and do nothing until the problem in my OP happens again....if it does.
System closed this discussion on Dec 19, 2017 @ 12:00 PM.