Same Bond Fund held in Two Different Accounts - Only One Price Updated by Quote Loader

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robnich1

10 Jun, 2020 10:39 PM

I hold a position Vanguard Short Term Bond fund in one of my IRA accounts, and also in a non-tax sheltered account outside my retirement plan. The fund appears twice in my Stock Prices list in Moneydance 2019.3, but only one of the entries is updated by Quote Loader 3024, which otherwise does a perfect job in updating the prices of all my holdings. I have not been able to figure a way to correct this anomaly. Of course it is easy for me to update this single price manually, but it would be nice if it were done automatically as MD opens.

  1. 1 Posted by dwg on 10 Jun, 2020 10:59 PM

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    I'm a fellow user.

    It comes down to the way Moneydance is designed.

    You probably noticed during set up that setting up an Investment Account was a separate process to setting up a security. There is a reason for this. The premise in Moneydance is that a security should only be defined once within the Data Set and it can then be associated with multiple accounts, it should not be defined for every instance of the security, this is the way I believe Quicken works. Unfortunately there is no preventing the defining of multiple securities like this within Moneydance, I'm not sure it could be prevented as even ticker codes are not unique.

    Based on the design premise, If it recall correctly, Quote Loader updates the first instance of a security as it expects there to only be one instance of it. I'm not sure if there is any way of overcoming this.

  2. 2 Posted by derekkent23 on 11 Jun, 2020 09:42 AM

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    I am not support staff, just a user.
    Hi robnich1

    Bottom line, you will need to edit one of your investment accounts to replace the duplicate security so all investment accounts used the common security. Delete the duplicate, now unused security from under TOOLS - SECURITIES. Quote Loader will then perform as you hoped.

    Hope this helps.

  3. 3 Posted by robnich1 on 11 Jun, 2020 03:35 PM

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    I am afraid I don't really understand derekkent23's instructions to: "replace the duplicate security so all investment accounts used the common security." Can you clarify that a bit, step-by-step?
    Thank you.

  4. 4 Posted by -Kevin N. on 11 Jun, 2020 04:15 PM

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    Hi robnich1,

    The first thing to do is to determine if you do indeed have 2 instances of the Vanguard Short Term Bond fund within your data file.

    To do so, from the Moneydance menu bar, go to Tools > Securities.

    If you do have 2 instances of the Vanguard Short Term Bond fund, here is what you need to do.

    Make a backup of your data file before proceeding.
    (Menu bar > File > Export Backup)

    Again, go to Tools > Securities.

    Locate 1 of the 2 instances of the Vanguard Short Term Bond fund and double-click it.
    In the resulting 'History' window, click the 'Edit' button in the upper right-hand corner.

    In the resulting form, change the 'Security Name' field from Vanguard Short Term Bond fund to something glaringly obvious that will stick out like a sore thumb in your investment account registers. e.g. rename it to 'CHANGE ME'.

    Click OK and close out the open windows.

    Look to the 'Security' field of your investment account registers and locate each instance of CHANGE ME. From the 'Security' field drop-down list, select the actual Vanguard Short Term Bond fund. Continue until there are no more transactions involving CHANGE ME.

    You should then be able to delete the CHANGE ME security.

    -Kevin N. (not a member of MD support)

  5. 5 Posted by derekkent23 on 11 Jun, 2020 06:00 PM

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    I am not support staff, just a user.
    Hi robnich1

    It look like Kevin has posted a great How To

    Hope it Helps

  6. 6 Posted by robnich1 on 11 Jun, 2020 10:39 PM

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    Now I really am confused. I do have two different separate accounts in the Vanguard Short Term Bond fund, one in my IRA and one outside my retirement funds in a taxable account. These are different accounts, with different balances, in the same mutual fund. I don't regard one of them as a duplicate of the other and wouldn't want to delete it with all its data. My minor problem is that the daily NAV is updated by Quote Loader for only one of the Short Term Bond funds so I update the other manually. The name of the fund IS duplicated in the Stock Prices list and I understand that MD only updates the first one.

    I must be misunderstanding something in the instructions that Kevin kindly provided.

    Robert N.

  7. 7 Posted by dwg on 11 Jun, 2020 11:01 PM

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    I'm a fellow user.

    The problem is not that you have the Vanguard bond in two separate accounts, it could be in many accounts. The problem is that you have the Vanguard Bond security defined more than once. You can use the security in as many places as needed, but the security itself should only be setup once. It is within the security where the prices are stored.

    If this approach was not taken then you would have the security itself defined in every account it is used in and the same security details and prices would be stored in each account this leading to significant duplication.

    Your Vanguard transactiosn are unique to each account as they should be the trouble is you have a unique definition of the security for each account.

    The process that Kevin has given is to change this so that each account is using the one underlying definition and prices for Vanguard rather than its own copy.

    What he wants you to do is decide which of the vanguard security definitions you want to use then rename any other to an obvious name. Go into the investment account. Make sure the security to be kept is attached to the account - use Add Security if needed. Then examine each transaction and any with the obvious name that is to be eventually deleted change the security used to the one that will be kept.

  8. 8 Posted by Mike Bray on 12 Jun, 2020 06:34 AM

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    Hi @robnich1

    I hope @dwg reply has helped. Quote Loader is designed to handle ticker prices. The list you see is sorted by Ticker. There is only one entry per ticker. You should have only one Security in the MD Security table per Ticker. MD stores the price of that Ticker in the history table. No matter how many investment accounts you have they all reference the same Security.

    For example I have shares in Berkeley Group ticker BKG. There is only one entry in my MD securities table for Berkeley Group. I have 2 investment accounts an ISA and a general Fund and Share account, they both have holdings of BKG with different number of shares. When I run Quote Loader it loads the price of BKG. The value of both accounts changes to reflect the new price.

    Hope this helps you understand the way MD works and how Quote Loader deals with tickers.

  9. 9 Posted by derekkent23 on 12 Jun, 2020 11:20 AM

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    I am not support staff, just a user.
    Hi robnich1

    I have set up a new data set with two investment accounts.

    1. IRA Investment accounts
    2. non-tax-sheltered investment account.

    I have set up two instances of a security under TOOLS – SECURITIES both with the same ticker symbol.
    The security being Vanguard Short-Term Bond Index Fund ETF Shares with ticker symbol BSV:PCQ:USD

    When I run Quote Loader the Security only appears once and only one of the two investment accounts shows the price for the security being updated.

    I think this mimic your situation.

    Use this link to go to a YouTube video. https://youtu.be/Mulo9XkklAY

    In the video at the point “Now follow the process to correct the issue” you will see these steps being followed.

    1. In the second investment account SECURITY DETAIL tab I click HISTORY then EDIT and change the name of the Security to CHANGE ME.
    2. Then in the same account SECURITY DETAIL tab I click ADD SECURITY and add my Vanguard security to the account.
    3. Now I click on the REGISTER tab and select the transactions that contain CHANGE ME in the SECURITY field using the dropdown to select the Vanguard security. You need to do this everywhere a transaction contains CHANGE ME in all investment accounts.
    4. Back in the SECURITY DETAIL tab I click on REMOVE SECURITY and select CHANGE ME in the dropdown.

    Done, now when I check under TOOLS – SECURITIES there is only one Vanguard and when I use Quote Loader both investment accounts are updated.

    This process is similar to the one advocated by Kevin but I think he left out the step to add the Vanguard security to the investment account that now has the security CHANGE ME before trying in the REGISTER tab to change, Change ME to Vanguard.

    Hope this helps.

  10. 10 Posted by robnich1 on 12 Jun, 2020 07:11 PM

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    First of all I want to thank dwg, derekkent23, Kevin N. and Mike Bray for taking the time and trouble to so thoroughly and patiently explain the solution to my problem, and special thanks to Derek for the extraordinary step of actually making a YouTube video to guide me to the solution.

    In short, it worked, although there were stumbles along the way, probably attributable to my brain slowing down a bit as I approach my 85th birthday in 3 months. As the Vanguard Short Term Bond fund pays a monthly dividend, and I have 11 years of entries in MD, there were 132 entries in the Register in which I had to change the name of CHANGE ME to the Vanguard fund -- several months worth of manually changing the price daily but worth it to have Moneydance working properly.

    So, thanks again fellows for all your help -- very much appreciated.

    Robert N.

  11. 11 Posted by derekkent23 on 12 Jun, 2020 08:52 PM

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    I am not support staff, just a user.
    Hi robnich1

    Really glad we all were able to guide you to a solution.

    Have Fun, Stay Safe.

  12. Maddy closed this discussion on 12 Jun, 2020 08:57 PM.

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