Implement "Add Shares" and "Remove Shares" transactions

RJS's Avatar


09 Jan, 2023 01:18 AM

Right now, it appears the only way to get shares of securities into MD is to Buy them. Naturally, this affects the account's balance.

There are times when a simple Add Shares transaction is needed. Having to Buy shares makes converting from Quicken much more difficult than if we could just make shares pop into existence. It's also needed, along with Remove Shares, when shares are transferred intact from one account to another.

  1. 1 Posted by dwg on 09 Jan, 2023 01:52 AM

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    You can make shares pop into existing today with a buy transactions with a zero price and amount and a number of shares. In reverse you can remove them.

    BUT shares do not just pop into existence or disappear in the real world or in Moneydance. Doing it results in Moneydance not reporting the correct cost basis of those shares for an add or reporting incorrect capital losses on a remove. This approach though is generally ok for things like small rounding adjustments.

    This approach will never work properly for any software that follows double entry accounting rules as Moneydance does to move shares between accounts, the shares, including each lot information, so original purchase dates and original prices are always required.

  2. 2 Posted by RJS on 09 Jan, 2023 06:19 PM

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    original purchase dates and original prices are always required.

    Quicken's Add Shares transaction allows input of both the current transaction date and the original acquisition date. It also allows input of the original cost but does not subtract that cost from the account balance. This preserves the necessary information.

  3. 3 Posted by dwg on 09 Jan, 2023 08:15 PM

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    Sure Quicken does, BUT Quicken while being a personal finance program is not based on the rules of double entry accounting so it can do things in a way that defies accounting rules.

    For example in Quicken you can make money just appear or disappear in an account, Quicken does not show were it came from or where it has gone to, as far as Quicken is concerned thin air was involved.

    Shares involve value and you cannot just make value disappear from one place and appear in another under accounting rules it requires transactions to be posted for value to move.

    If I was to compare Quicken to accounting I would compare it to single entry accounting which is where you just have lists of transactions. Single entry is easy to manipulate and is not rules based, highly prone to error. Quicken avoids this by using wizards for data entry which sets up what entries it needs, which in some instance makes it look like double entry.

  4. 4 Posted by RJS on 09 Jan, 2023 09:30 PM

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    I understand everything you say, @dwg. I need a personal finance program, not an accounting program. I don't care at all about accounting rules or double-entry. I'm just trying to keep track of my family's finances and if the entries are a little loosey-goosey, that doesn't bother me. No one outside my family will ever look at them. Maybe MD isn't for me - or for the avalanche of Quicken users who may be looking for new software in the future.

  5. 5 Posted by dwg on 10 Jan, 2023 01:10 AM

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    All software has its design model, as it is just happens Moneydance uses the standard accounting model, quite a few personal finance programs have taken this route so Moneydance is not unique. Quicken chose a different path and while I did use Quicken and did not mind the software (although it has its limitations too) The company's attitude finally pushed me away, the pricing model in this country was further incentive.

    Ways are being worked on to make Moneydance more usable. This is encompassing things like Stuart Beasley's Toolbox which can move investment transactions and perform some merges in investments, some things may be able to be done within the software and some will have to remain procedural, since at the end of the day Moneydance will remain based on the accounting model.

    This will not please all, especially as some of the request I have seen would completely break the accounting model, so some will prefer software that is more free form in how it works.

    Moneydance will never be a Quicken clone, I suspect no software will as I envisage Quicken has some well paid lawyers, but what many of the users want to see is the best, most complete, Quicken alternative that we can possibly have.

  6. 6 Posted by dwg on 10 Jan, 2023 11:51 PM

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    FWIW A form like the Quicken "Add Shares" could work in Moneydance, but the big difference would be at the back end.

    The Moneydance form code would have to convert it to a real accounting based transaction, probably something like a BuyXfr with the "money" coming from a special category that is excluded from all reporting.

    A further change would need to be made to reporting to allow the tax date to be used in investment reporting.

  7. System closed this discussion on 12 Apr, 2023 12:00 AM.

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