Using Microsoft One Drive to backup to the Cloud

Michael Collier's Avatar

Michael Collier

28 Mar, 2024 05:41 PM

Backing up using Microsoft One Drive, I think, requires a specified backup location on the cloud (or maybe to the 'cloud' in general) and you might also have to tell your computer to permit the backup software to back up in the first place (not sure about this). I am further guessing that if you've never backed up anything or made any provisions to do so using One Drive, there is no need to worry that one will take place automatically. Anybody with some input based on experience?

  1. 1 Posted by dtd on 29 Mar, 2024 06:43 AM

    dtd's Avatar

    If you are talking backup, versus syncing, or hosting your primary database, it is not a problem.

    Backup is simply a copy of the database in another location. I have multiple copies in the cloud.

    Primary databases, or sync databases are an entirely different issue.

  2. 2 Posted by mrengr on 29 Mar, 2024 07:08 AM

    mrengr's Avatar

    I am ready to copy my primary MD data base to a flash drive and then copy it from the flash drive
    to the ‘documents’ folder of a new version of MD on a new All-in-One desktop computer I recently purchased. Of course, I will install a new version of MD on my new computer first. I am also curious about what a Microsoft One Drive software on my old and new computers may be doing or attempting to do in the Cloud with my MD data base. Both my old and new computers came with an installed One Drive software. I do not know if it tries to periodically backup to the Cloud any data from my computers in an automatic sense (whether or not MD would
    even permit this to happen).

    Sent from Mail for Windows

  3. 3 Posted by derekkent23 on 29 Mar, 2024 07:56 AM

    derekkent23's Avatar

    I am not support staff, just a user.
    Hi Michae

    The following explains how to use Moneydance’s inbuild backup systems.

    Moneydance backups can be a live saver if you make a big mistake or you hit a problem with your computer, so a word on Moneydance’s backup types and how to restore a Moneydance backup.

    There are two types of Moneydance backup, manual and auto.
    The default backup location can be found under HELP – SHOW ARCHIVE FOLDER. This location is on your hard drive. In both cases you can select the backup location and as such it is good practice to set the location on a cloud server such as Dropbox, OneDrive etc, in case your hard drive fails.

    Manual backup. A manual backup can be made under FILE – BACKUP EXPORT. The automatic file naming convention is yourdatasetname-yyyymmdd-tttt.moneydancearchive

    Automatic backup is set under FILE – PREFERENCES – BACKUPS. Auto backup makes a backup every time you close Moneydance. Moneydance only keep the last auto backup of the day, overwriting any previous auto backups for that day. You can set the number of backups to be kept. When this number is exceeded the oldest backup is deleted. The automatic file naming convention is yourdatasetname.yyyy-mm-dd.moneydancearchive

    A moneydancearchive file is a compressed data set.

    The contents of a backup file is encrypted and provided you have set a password under FILE – PASSWORDS can only be opened by Moneydance by entering your password after using FILE – RESTORE FROM BACKUP.

    If you are syncing and using a cloud server as a backup location don’t set your computers to use the exact same backup location. When you sync you have a primary computer and secondary computers. A primary data set is not the same as a secondary data set and hence neither are there backups. But as they use the same data set name it possible to get confused. To identified a Secondary Data Set install and run the extension Toolbox, it will tell you if the Data Set is a secondary. It is possible to convert a secondary data set to a primary data set by running Toolbox. Your password is not reset, you still need it to open a backup.

    When you FILE– RESTORE FROM BACKUP you do not overwrite your existing data set, a new data set is created with the naming convention – from manual backup yourdatasetname-yyyymmdd-tttt.moneydance the date time code taken from the backup file - from auto backup yourdatasetname-yyyymmdd.moneydance the date code taken from the backup file. As part of the restore process you will be given the option to change the name of the restored Data Set although you can’t use the name of an existing Data Set. Also there is a tick box KEEP SYNC SETTING FROM ORIGINAL FILE. See note below tick box. If you were syncing data between devices and something when wrong and this is the reason you are Restoring from Backup you should untick the box to break the syncing link to other device so the syncing does not resume automatically and you can set up syncing anew. Other backup methods such as making a copy of your data set will mean syncing is still enabled and can mean a restored data set will sync and your data set will be corrupted again.
    The set Auto Backup location can be found under HELP – SHOW BACKUP FOLDER.
    The default data set location can be found under HELP– SHOW DOCUMENT FOLDER. This location is on your hard drive and you should not move your data set, certainly not to a cloud server where due to the nature of the Data Set read/write features it could become corrupted. You can delete old data sets you no longer want. You can rename a restored data set with Moneydance closed as you would any other folder provided you retain “.moneydance” extension. A data set is a folder not a file containing other folders and files. When you open Moneydance it will open in the “Welcome to Moneydance” window with the data set name listed on the right.

    Hope this helps.

  4. 4 Posted by Michael Collier on 29 Mar, 2024 03:15 PM

    Michael Collier's Avatar

    Which Moneydance method do you prefer in order to place an encrypted MD
    data folder in the cloud so that you can
    later bring it back as a data folder for
    use on another computer?

    On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 2:56 AM derekkent23 <[email blocked]>
    wrote:

  5. 5 Posted by derekkent23 on 29 Mar, 2024 03:40 PM

    derekkent23's Avatar

    I am not support staff, just a user.
    Hi Michael

    I use both methods. Automatic backup as the main method and manual backup if I am about to do something that may produce an issue.

    Hope this helps,

  6. 6 Posted by Michael Collier on 29 Mar, 2024 04:19 PM

    Michael Collier's Avatar

    I am talking about moving from a Windows 10 OS on my old computer to
    a Windows 11 on my new computer.
    I want to send you a short procedure
    that I have pieced together for your
    evaluation, but I do not want to send
    it to infinitekind.com

  7. 7 Posted by derekkent23 on 29 Mar, 2024 05:33 PM

    derekkent23's Avatar

    I am not support staff, just a user.
    Hi Michael

    Simple do a FILE – EXPORT BACKUP on your old computer to OneDrive then FILE - RESTORE FROM BACKUP on the new computer restoring the Moneydance backup you just created on OneDrive.

    Hope this helps.

  8. 8 Posted by Michael Collier on 29 Mar, 2024 09:58 PM

    Michael Collier's Avatar

    In what status do you set the syncing option on the old version of MD on the
    old computer before the backup to
    One Drive? And what status do you
    set said syncing option on the new
    version of MD on the new computer?

  9. 9 Posted by dwg on 29 Mar, 2024 10:45 PM

    dwg's Avatar

    What are you trying to do? Migrate to a new machine or set up syncing between two machines. The way you are talking suggests you are trying to do both.

    You cannot copy a data set between two machines and then set up syncing between them. Moneydance does not work like that you cannot preload systems with data.

  10. 10 Posted by derekkent23 on 29 Mar, 2024 10:50 PM

    derekkent23's Avatar

    I am not support staff, just a user.
    Hi Michael

    You stated “I am talking about moving from a Windows 10 OS on my old computer to a Windows 11 on my new computer.”

    That being the case you don’t have to do anything to the syncing setting on the old computer.

    On the new computer as part of the FILE – RESTORE FROM BACKUP process untick the box KEEP SYNC SETTING FROM ORIGINAL FILE and if you want to type a new name in the NEW ACCOUNT SET box.

    If what you really want to do is continue to use your old computer, not move to the new computer but sync to the new computers so that the same Data Set can be used on both computers then see https://infinitekind.tenderapp.com/kb/syncing-and-sharing-data/sync... and use the sync method Dropbox Folder.

    Hope this helps.

  11. 11 Posted by Michael Collier on 29 Mar, 2024 11:21 PM

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    I am reading horror stories about individuals who upload their MD
    data folder to One Drive and then
    do not get the whole contents
    back when they download it to a
    new computer (and in some cases
    corrupted data ).

    On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 5:50 PM derekkent23 <[email blocked]>
    wrote:

  12. 12 Posted by dwg on 29 Mar, 2024 11:32 PM

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    Then don't use One Drive, copy it using a USB key, a USB connected hard disk etc.

  13. 13 Posted by Michael Collier on 30 Mar, 2024 12:48 AM

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    The corrupted data too which I earlier referred was really old data with
    file extensions that MD no longer
    uses. My current version of
    MD is a 2022 year version, but I do not
    know if it’s data folder contains
    data files that are much older than
    2022.

    On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 6:33 PM dwg <[email blocked]> wrote:

  14. 14 Posted by dwg on 30 Mar, 2024 02:53 AM

    dwg's Avatar

    Moneydance started to move to a managed library approach for handling data with the 2012 version. This is when the .moneydance file extension started being used for the top level folder of the library. A library model is where the data comprised many files spread across multiple folders.

    Prior to this Moneydance used a .md file extension with a single file. There was limited support for sharing data using Dropbox, but there were restrictions, One Drive was never supported nor tested with this.

    There were cases of Moneydance data getting corrupted when using this approach, which increased with later versions of the software and provided one of the reasons for the development of Moneydance's own syncing capability.

    It was only with Moneydance's own syncing with Moneydance 2017 where One Drive became a supported solution for syncing between desktops using the shared folder method.

    With Moneydance 2017 and latter there will be a trunk file plus a number of incremental transaction files, all of these files will be recent, older transaction files get rolled into the trunk file. Hence the only older files with the structure will be attachment files.

  15. 15 Posted by mrengr on 30 Mar, 2024 03:56 AM

    mrengr's Avatar

    In 2018 I bought a new laptop computer. The old laptop was 5+ years old at the time. This takes me
    back to at least 2013, but I didn’t transfer the old data files to the new laptop. At the time of the new
    laptop purchase, I manually entered all my old data via keyboard. There is a lot more data to enter
    manually now; my investments have increased. I want to have their record without having to type values
    onto my newest computer.
    After reading your message I have a comment. Someone at Moneydance told me to turn OFF syncing
    in my old computer before transferring its data folder to a USB flash drive. Is this your understanding also?
    What about turning off the syncing function in my new recently purchased computer? Turn its
    syncing capability OFF also?

    Sent from Mail for Windows

  16. 16 Posted by dwg on 30 Mar, 2024 04:23 AM

    dwg's Avatar

    The first part of your post suggests you are migrating to a new machine, however you then talk about turning syncing off on the new machine implying you already have Moneydance on both machines and are syncing data.

    What is the current environment and what are you trying to do. Is this a migration? Are you already syncing the data?

    It sounds like you are reading the migration document. In that document they copy the data tree, in which case you do turn of syncing before you copy. If you take the alternative path of creating a backup, copying it then restoring you do not need to turn off syncing but when you do the restore you ensure you do not retain the sync settings, thus achieving the same goal.

    But like I said talking about turning off syncing on the new machine beforehand makes me question what you have and what you are trying to do.

  17. 17 Posted by mrengr on 30 Mar, 2024 06:00 AM

    mrengr's Avatar

    I have MD on the old machine now, but will install a newer version on the new computer. The installation will
    take place before I begin the process of transferring my data files to a USB flash drive. After I transfer a copy (it might be the original; not sure) to a USB flash drive, I will then ‘transfer’ the data from the flash drive to the new computer. To do this last step. I have to access the ‘documents’ folder to get the ‘personalfinances.moneydance’ folder. This is what I transfer to the flash drive. Then I transfer this folder to the ‘documents’ folder on the new computer. My plan is to NOT turn OFF the sync option on the new computer (does that mean it is on?); I was just wondering if I should. I will turn off the syncing option on the old computer before I even begin the data transfer to the USB flash drive.
    Sent from Mail for Windows

  18. 18 Posted by dwg on 30 Mar, 2024 07:03 AM

    dwg's Avatar

    So you are migrating to a new machine and you intend to use drag and drop to copy the Moneydance data set as is to the Flash drive from the old machine and then again to copy from the flash drive to the new machine.

    With this approach definitely disable syncing on the old machine before you do the copy. You want that machine to effectively be a standalone machine, if it is not there is likely to be problems.

    Once you get to the new machine and have it running there in standalone mode you can then set up syncing as a fresh setup if you want to. You can then remove the old files from One Drive/Dropbox because they will have been made obsolete by this process. Your new machine will be the Primary system and as such it can only create a new setup it cannot connect to existing data on the shared service, only secondary systems can do that and for secondary systems you never manually copy data.

  19. 19 Posted by derekkent23 on 30 Mar, 2024 08:22 AM

    derekkent23's Avatar

    I am not support staff, just a user.
    Hi Michael

    You are making a simple process of transferring your data from an old computer to a new stand alone computer over complex. I have done it many times and its really a simple process.

    Its far easier to use the process involving a Moneydance created backup than it is in copying and transferring the copy of your actual Data Set to a new computer, finding the correct location in the moneydance file structure etc. The Backup is in fact a compressed Data Set which is safe to create and retrieve on OneDrive as explained below. You can’t damage your Data Set on your old computer and even if in the extremely unlikely event a Restore From Backup on your new computer fails you haven’t lost any data. If you try to copy your Data Set itself it consist of a folder housing other folders and files and you are more likely to get something wrong.

    No need to go near the syncing setup on your old computer just simple do a FILE – EXPORT BACKUP on your old computer to OneDrive, then FILE - RESTORE FROM BACKUP on the new computer restoring the Moneydance backup you just created on OneDrive. As part of the restore process untick the box KEEP SYNC SETTING FROM ORIGINAL FILE and if you want to, edit or type a new name in the NEW ACCOUNT SET box.

    It’s that simple.

    If you then want to set up syncing back to your old computer with your new computer then just
    see https://infinitekind.tenderapp.com/kb/syncing-and-sharing-data/sync... When setting up syncing, I would suggest using the sync method Dropbox Folder ensuring you first have Dropbox client installed on both computers so you can see the Dropbox folder on both your computer’s hard drive under C:. In the article your new computer is covered by the section Enable Syncing – with your old computer covered by the section Retrieve Sync Data –

    Hope this helps.

  20. 20 Posted by mrengr on 30 Mar, 2024 11:00 AM

    mrengr's Avatar

    Drag and drop? Not me. After I find ‘This PC’ on my old Windows 10 Laptop computer, I see Windows c:\ and
    double click on it. Then double click on each sub folder until I get to ‘documents.’ When I double click on
    ‘document,’ it is then I see the folder for which I am looking, ‘personalfinances.moneydance.’ Here is one of
    The critical things I do now; I right click on ‘personalfinances.moneydance’ on my old laptop and choose
    ‘Copy.’ The copy command copies this folder LOCATION to the system memory on my PC. Next, I plug into
    my old laptop’s USB port a flash drive stick. Windows should automatically open ‘file explorer’ when a thumb
    drive is inserted. By opening the ‘file explorer’ I see the drive letter for the USB device. I double click on the
    driver’s name in the left panel under ‘This PC.’
    Here is another critical thing I do; I then right click the white space on the drive and follow by clicking ‘paste.’
     (pasting the ‘personalfinances.monedance’ folder on the USB flash drive stick). The ‘file explorer’ should
    still be open. So I right click on the USB drive, select ‘eject’ or ‘safely remove.’ Wait for a confirmation
    message. Once the flash drive is safe, I physically remove it.
    So I’ve safely removed the flash drive and I plug it into the USB port on the new computer. Again, Windows
    should automatically open ‘file exlorer’ for me to see the drive letter for the USB device. If ‘file explorer’ does
    not open, I click on the new computer’s ‘start’ icon at the bottom of the Windows 11 screen, in the icon
    tray and then click on ‘file explorer.’
    Now I navigate to the ‘document’s folder starting at Windows c:\ until I arrive at ‘documents’ on the new
    computer. I click on the ‘documents’ folder. Then click on ‘show more options.’ I click on ‘send to options.’
    Select ‘documents’ folder. This should place the ‘personfinances.moneydance’ folder from the flash drive
    In the ‘documents’ folder on the new computer. Right click on the USB drive. Select ‘eject’ or ‘safely
    Remove.’ Wait for a confirmation message. Once the flash drive is safe, I physically remove it.
    Keep in mind that I would install a newer 2023 version of Moneydance (prior to the moving of my data
    file from the old computer to the USB flash drive) on my new computer. Do I also ‘unsync’ my old 2022
    version of Moneydance before or after installing the newer 2023 version on my new computer? I think
    before, but I may be wrong. Please advise.
    Sent from Mail for Windows

  21. 21 Posted by derekkent23 on 30 Mar, 2024 03:17 PM

    derekkent23's Avatar

    I am not support staff, just a user.
    Hi Michael

    In my last post I have outline the best approach to copy your data to a new computer using the Moneydance Backup feature.

    Simple and less complex than your last post.

    Cant really add to that.

    Have Fun, Stay Safe.

  22. 22 Posted by Michael Collier on 02 Apr, 2024 09:54 PM

    Michael Collier's Avatar

    I am sticking with the original MD instructions plus a couple of minor
    corrections. If it does not work, I
    wild start again with an empty ranksdata
    set. Maybe eventually MD will come
    up with a software-data folder
    composite all-in-one transfer to a
    new computer. Thanks for your help.

  23. 23 Posted by dwg on 02 Apr, 2024 10:48 PM

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    The all-in-one transfer method is by creating a backup, copying the one file and restoring it, there will never be another method of just copying one file.

    The Migration article was written as a method that should work in all cases, no matter what the situation as one of the most simple approaches. Experienced used can create other methods or variations, including ways of migrating a primary syncing system intact without the need to break syncing, and there are even multiple ways of doing this.

    If corrections are needed to the migration article I'm sure we would like to hear them.

  24. 24 Posted by derekkent23 on 03 Apr, 2024 09:37 AM

    derekkent23's Avatar

    I am not support staff, just a user.
    Hi Michael

    Not sure why you want just try the Moneydance Backup method. Even if it does not work you loss nothing. Moneydance on old computer will still open your Data Set and new computer Moneydance will still be OK

    Give it a go!

    Have Fun, Stay Safe.

  25. 25 Posted by Michael Collier on 03 Apr, 2024 02:20 PM

    Michael Collier's Avatar

    When I refer to the Moneydance Method, I am referring a method that
    initially requires a ‘don’t sink’
    command from within MD. In effect, what are all the ramifications of this
    command from within the MD program itself?

    On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 4:37 AM derekkent23 <[email blocked]>
    wrote:

  26. 26 Posted by derekkent23 on 03 Apr, 2024 03:02 PM

    derekkent23's Avatar

    I am not support staff, just a user.
    Hi Michael

    Under FILE - SYNCING the selection Don’t Sync is telling Moneydance not to sync.

    So again

    Not sure why you want just try the Moneydance Backup method to open your old computer Data Set on your New Computer. Even if it does not work you loss nothing. Moneydance on old computer will still open your Data Set and new computer Moneydance will still be OK

    Give it a go!

    Have Fun, Stay Safe.

  27. Maddy closed this discussion on 11 Apr, 2024 10:23 AM.

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